Hi, first time posting here so I hope it's ok.


I've recently gotten back into the series through the radio plays (Serenity, Broken, Outbreak...) and it's reignited both my love for Torchwood and the old frustrations I used to have with the series, Gwen being the primary focus of those.


From the way she treated the other members of the team to her general behaviour, she's never been a character I could relate to, and by episode 6 was a character I firmly disliked.  By the end of the series, I outright hated her.


Cutting for length :-).


Read more... )
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Just checking in to this mostly-dead community to say how much I appreciate everyone who's critical of Gwen Cooper! You're all super intelligent, sensible, rational thinkers. =)

Is anyone following the new Torchwood series from Big Finish? I'm enjoying it a lot; I especially look forward to Owen's and Rhys's episodes announced for the upcoming season. But I have skipped all Gwen-centric stories -- hope I didn't miss too much that pertains to the universe in general or the other characters...

Can't stand Gwen as a person (naturally), and worse yet how preposterously bad she is as a character. It's beyond all suspension of disbelief and all crazy alien crap that someone as ignorant and incompetent as Gwen, who's rude and dismissive literally towards everybody literally all the time can endear herself to anyone, evoke respect, and keep a high-class job and personal relationships.

The further the Torchwood went, the less believable got her continued presence on the team -- until we've all just sighed and coped.
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Ok.
1st off. I've been a 'watcher' on this community for years - it's Anti-Gwen, how could i not :)
Awhile ago, I gave myself a project of going back through the posts on this site from start to current.
There's _a lot_ of them.
Enjoyed re-reading the fics, the commentary and the rants.
I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Seems everyone can agree that they didn't like Gwen from the moment she lied to Rhys about being at the murder scene.
I agree but I realized that there's a scene we've overlooked.
The 1st one.
There SHE is, standing in the rain (what is it with the lack of umbrellas?!?), when the word gets passed down.
Clear the area for Special Ops/Torchwood.
Gwen's reaction to that?
"They can't do that!"
...
uuhm, yeaah. I'm pretty sure that not only CAN they but that they ARE doing that.

Did she never hear about interagency cooperations?!?!
I'm not a cop, I just watch cop shows and I KNOW that the Police work with other organizations.
Here in the U.S., tv cop shows have the NSA or the Feds coming in and taking over a case.
It happens.
Yet, there's our 'hero' denying reality.
And this is her FIRST SCENE!!

Then what does she do?
She LEAVES THE MURDER SCENE!
Again, from tv shows, wasn't she supposed to tell people she's left. That way, IF anything else happens, they can account for her?
I'm guessing, when she got back (still shocked/dazed from what she saw), that she told her co-workers that she left to go to the bathroom but I don't see them believing that.

My retake on the scene (aka how to keep Gwen out of Torchwood):
A co-worker reminders her that "yes, they can take over the scene' and gives examples of not just TW taking over a scene but the army or the government. Then the co-workers (re-)explains WHY another organization would come in. (victim's an arms dealer, was an informant, was carrying something that shouldn't be known...)
By the time the re-education of Gwen is done, Torchwood has left the scene.
Gwen never sees the resurrection, (still lies to Rhys), never sees the Torchwood team and, therefore, never sees Jack's coat disappearing up the stairs at the hospital.
No Gwen in Torchwood.
What do you think? Works, right?

Oh, my take on Gwen's background?
(based only on what we learned from 1st season - means we don't know about meeting Rhys in college, her parents and friends...only Andy, who she bails on whenever she wants)
She was a shop girl who got rescued from (?!?) by the cops.
Gwen started noticing how people treat police officers and decided she wanted in.
As a cop, she was now SOMEBODY.
But then came Torchwood and she knew that she had to join THEM to become a bigger SOMEBODY.
.
.
ok, that theory doesn't really work but there's a bit of truth in it, I'm certain of that.
Also, I'm certain that one Billis Manger is the one who points Gwen towards the Police AND, quite possibly, altered records so that she's hired, when Torchwood DOES look at them (and I like to believe that, while Jack does hire impulsively, he also verifies the qualifications - explains Tosh & Owen).

That's it. I could ramble on but this being 1st post, I'll go easy on you ^_^
(there's the whole non-qualifications of Gwen to rant on, after all)
'Night.

- Rose

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I'm sure this has been said before but it's really been bugging me so I'll say it anyway. Having recently watched both "Cyberwoman" and "Day One" I was annoyed to say the least. In "Cyberwoman" two people are killed by/because of Lisa. Two. In "Day One" unnumbered people die because of Gwen, but Ianto is treated more harshly than her, both by the narrative and the characters, yet Gwen made a stupid mistake from mucking about and Ianto did what he did from love. So how is this fair?

in soooo many fics, including the one I'm reading right now. It's like this:

Jack Harkness - world-renowned neurosurgeon

Ianto Jones - world-renowned researcher

Toshiko Sato - Top neurosurgeon

Owen Harper - Top neurosurgeon

Gwen Cooper - First-year med student

Jack feels faint. He is in the midst of a critical portion of a very delicate brain operation, assisted by his colleagues, Toshiko Sato and Owen Harper. Tosh and Ianto Jones collaborated to develop the experimental technique Jack is using in this operation. Gwen is watching from the gallery, as part of her class work. Jack knows he will not be able to finish this operation, since he is feeling so unwell. He turns to his colleagues and says, "While I am indisposed, I am letting Gwen take over for me". Unfortunately, this causes Tosh, Owen, and Ianto, who is standing by, to all fall down dead from shock, caused by the unimaginable absurdity of this. However, had they taken a moment to think before dying, they would have realized that Jack is really, really ill and completely out of his head. Why on EARTH would anybody in their right mind ever put Gwen bloody Cooper in charge of anything? The end.

I joined this community just so I could post this, because.
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I got this review for the penultimate chapter of "Director Jones" today:

It actually starts with a compliment... )

Now, I've got three things to say to this:

1) All my stories are clearly labelled as not Gwen-friendly. If someone is a Gwacker, why do you read them in the first place.
2) None of us go around, read Gwack fics and then leave indignant reviews. Why can't the Gwackers leave us alone?
3) It's obvious that the story isn't finished yet, although it has 19 chapters already. Also, it's the pilot episode of an even longer series. Just how much longer would the reviewer want me to make it?

I wish that the 75 people who favourited the story and the 131 who put it on alert (also presumably like it) would be half this eager to leave reviews as those who delight in finding fault.

I'm really happy that the story will be over next week. I've just completely lost the joy in writing it. :(
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Hi guys!

Not sure if this is the exact place to do this, but I'm writing a paper on basically all aspects of the Mary Sue character in canon fiction (what it is, the power fantasy, lazy writing, are they really a Sue, why so many female Sues?, is it okay to write a Sue, etcetcetc.) and I was hoping to write quite extensively about Gwen being a Sue product of lazy writing (as opposed to the author's power fantasy).
Basically, the point I'm trying to make is that the writers skimped on her backstory, development and overall character in an attempt to make a widely likeable character and failed miserably.

What I have gathered so far that counts towards bad writing is:

  • None of the team appears to be wary of Gwen at all when she joins the team. For such a secret organisation, you'd think they'd be a bit more suspicious of her.

  • She's the "heart of Torchwood" but honestly seems to be stirring up the most emotional issues out of all of them.

  • Becoming the de-facto leader when Jack is absent although being the last viable option and actually being good at it when canon would predict otherwise

  • Her frankly alarming change of character in MD in order to fit a more "American" character

Do you guys have any other bits and bobs of the writers just not pulling their weight? It's not necessarily something that started at the very beginning - it could have happened as the show progressed in response to the fandom's complaints (e.g. fandom says "we don't like that part" so writers try desperately to erase that part of her personality). To be honest, it's been years since I've even bothered touching an episode of Torchwood because of my aversion to Gwen, so my memory is quite fuzzy.

sidenote: Someone also mentioned to me that Gwen seems to be very similar to Rose from Torchwood, so that could count as lazy writing (copying a previous character)?

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: So I have dug up my series 1 of Torchwood so I can put a more in-depth analysis into my paper and I realised something very crucial of Gwen's character as lazy writing. She is only there (at least at the beginning) to set up the premise. It's the easiest move to explaining Torchwood and possibly, the Doctor Who universe without having to put any actual effort into recounting the verse or encouraging people to watch certain episodes of Doctor Who. Gwen asks all the questions about Torchwood so the audience doesn't have to.
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I've never seen an episode of Miracle Day, never seen a clip, only heard what other people had to say about it.  Maybe I saw a few photos around.  I don't watch BBCA.  So I'm minding my own business in the break room at work and look up at the TV on the wall and what do I see?  An ad for MD!   (Can't hear the sound with all the people talking so I was totally blindsided).  Unfortunately it was like a train wreck -- I tried to look away... but I looked up again just in time to see Superhero Gwen with her rocket lancher or whatever it was.  That was when I fled to the bathroom to escape.  I'm traumatized.  I can't believe Gwen invaded my workplace.  No one even watches BBC where I work!  I have lost my innocence and will never get it back.  I need sympathy!

On a related note, does anyone have a character they hate more than Gwen?  Because I gotta say, after many decades of TV watching, I truly hate Gwen Cooper more than any other character I've ever seen.  In fact, I rarely totally hate them.  I hardly spend any time on LJ these days, so I just have the basic free account now with only 6 user icons.  I hate Gwen so much I had to keep one anti-Gwen to use.  What a remarkable woman!

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So Eve Myles got nominated for an award. Now I really shouldn't judge because I couldn't be bothered to watch Miracle something or another, but my first reaction to the news was much like Michael Bluth's reaction to Anne: "Her?" Of course, my reaction merely reflected the sadness I felt because the nominations for Myles and Torchwood seem to validate the series that should never be spoken of again.

Ultimately, I wondered why Anna Torv didn't get nominated instead, especially since she had to play five different versions of her character, and because that wasn't enough, she had to impersonate Leonard Nimoy for three episodes, which she did remarkable well. But what it all boils down to is that while Eve Myles is a good actress, Torv has the greater challenge in having to play the fully realized, very complicated Olivia Dunham.

Read more... )
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A preview snippet of the upcoming episode 8, 'End of the Road', has been released, in which [a] Gwen's conversation makes no sense to me given her behavour in the previous episode (and I doubt context will help), and which [b] showcases more of the painfully familiar Gwen's antics.

the preview clip and my rant, proceed with caution )

Of course, that's just the preview, and may not present the situation in a correct light - but I rather doubt it.

Rightio, I know a lot of people here have been avoiding Miracle Day (and from what I've seen, you're probably right to do so!), but comments about why the BBC cut out Jack's sex scene drew me to YouTube to have a gander before it airs in the UK on Thursday. Initial comment- not explicit at all... but the 5 minute clip I saw made me think something else...
Spoilery bits under the cut:
Read more... )


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This is another version of a discussion I started on another comm, but I realized it would be very on topic here too, with the focus on Gwen.  I was thinking about how MD would have been different with Ianto in it, when I realized that yet again there is more evidence for the belief that anyone who takes screen time and popularity away from Gwen has to go.  Which is why I'm expecting her to be the only one left standing at the end of MD.  RTD has come upon the perfect strategy to make sure Gwen is the star; every character that's not Gwen is a red shirt!  Start with all new characters every season and she's the only constant.

There's nothing worse than an immortal Mary Sue.

cut for possible spoilers )


 


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Reviewing the events of the Torchwood radio play 'Submission' that aired last week, I had a thought about the way Gwen's mind, or rather conscience, functions.

SPOILERS FOR 'SUBMISSION' )
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According to tvtropes the martystu( I call him that because the promotional material would not shut up about him be "the embodiment of the American dream", and "the man everbody wants to be like") makes reference to sexual tension between Jack and Gwen. Ship teasing two episodes in... lovely. Did they time this so that episode would air right after The House of the Dead?
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I was just looking at some reviews for Miracle Day. I found several that were so pro-Miracle Day it made me nauseous. What I didn't get was some interview with Myles where she said that Jack and Gwen were 2 missing parts of a jigsaw. What does that mean? Is that some Welsh thing?

She also said "They have an extraordinary relationship," says Myles. "They have a love-hate-love relationship, they have a brother and sister relationship. They have husband and wife relationship. They have the best friendship known to mankind. They're the two missing parts of a jigsaw, and when you find them, they'll always be together. It's a sensational soul-mate relationship, and there's no label for it."

To me she didn't make sense at all.

Another question I have is the big hoopla over the new people. Apparently Rex is dying from the very beginning of the show since he was impaled but still lives with a gaping wound that oozes. So that's just telling me that I shouldn't get interested in the new cast because they are all red shirts.
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I got the TV WEEK [it a TV Guide in Australia] and it had Eve Myles saying "Diehard fans will find everything they love about Torchwood" and her favourite episode is when Gwen and Jack are stuck in a car and everything come out - their past, how they feel...Lots of stuff gets answered and their still the tension between Gwen and the swashbuckling Captain Jack Harkness this made me sick
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This full page was from the July 4th issue of People Magazine. It looks like the wonderfulness of Gwenwood isn't getting Starz as many new subscribers as they had hoped.

They are now offering $25 Cash back for new subscribers to Starz. Of course, you'll only get the cash back if you keep Starz for 3 months. 

Looking more and more like Rusty sold them the same bill of goods he sold CoE watchers. 

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And Friday nights at 10 PM in the summer - let's see I could be partying with friends, or at an outdoor concert or stay in and watch Miracle Bomb. Let me contemplate that for a nanosecond. Ok done. Not watching Miracle Bomb.

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Just for your amusement and gratification, I present the following tally I researched today...

* Listed in numerical order.



Torchwood Genre Finders community tags:

The place fans go when looking for a certain type of story.

Ianto 200

Jack 124

Owen 28

Tosh 21

Gwen  17   (out of those, several have nothing to do with Gwen & I have no idea why she's in the tags, a couple are general team requests, several are anti-Gwen... and I count about 3 actual pro-Gwen requests.)



Torchwood Story Finders tags:

For when you're looking for a specific story.

Ianto 278

Jack 203

Gwen 33

Owen 30

Tosh 14

Keeping in mind that all characters are often tagged for team oriented stories/genres, I find that very impressive indeed for Super!Gwen.  Yes I definitely see that she's the star of the show.  I don't know why I ever thought otherwise.
 /sarcasm.

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Something Borrowed: A Humorous Review with No Real Analytical Value Whatsoever  

 

Disclaimer: As the title should indicate, this review is written purely to vent my own frustrations. It makes no attempt at in-depth, unbiased analysis regarding this episode or the within characters’ actions or motives. I’m posting it online, not to piss anyone off, but so that like minded people can my share in my humor. If you are strongly disposed toward the character of Gwen Cooper or the Gwack Ship, I suggest you do not read this review. 

 

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(Something Borrowed)
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