Spoilery Comment re MD, Episode 3

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

Rightio, I know a lot of people here have been avoiding Miracle Day (and from what I've seen, you're probably right to do so!), but comments about why the BBC cut out Jack's sex scene drew me to YouTube to have a gander before it airs in the UK on Thursday. Initial comment- not explicit at all... but the 5 minute clip I saw made me think something else...
Spoilery bits under the cut:
Basically, after some very unadventurous and tame sex with 'Brad the Bartender', Jack calls Gwen, glass of whisky (?) in hand, with a sleeping Brad beside him. A conversation ensues where Jack and Gwen chat and Jack looks a little teary when she mentions that if this whole immortality thing had happened a while back, Ianto would still be here. Not much else on the Ianto front, but a melancholy Jack  continues ..."we were a good team... we're good together... etc etc." Unfortunately, at this point Gwen is on Skype (or somesuch) watching Anwen and Rhys. Like a good friend she soon forgets that she's on her mobile and hangs up on him!! Now, this is the man she has been pining over for the first 2 series, the man she regards as a friend, a team mate- and now (supposedly) the most vulnerable person on Earth as he's mortal and everyone else is immortal. But she can't even afford him a goodbye when he's 'down'. Yet again, selfish!Gwen surfaces and she can't even say "Yeah- gotta go. Rhys is on the other line, I've got to go- look, get some sleep. We'll talk tomorrow, yeah?". Nope she just hangs up and leaves Jack talking to his 'phone, not realising she's gone. I know that if she was my 'friend' I'd find that pretty hard to forgive!! Yep! Miracle Day gives me yet another reason to believe that Gwen is a selfish self serving cow. In some ways I'm happy that it's reinforced my view that this character is an absolute waste of space- and a person I wouldn't want in my life. So there.

Comments

[jo02]

Can you link us to a clip of just the Jack/Brad scene?

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk2u94_torchwood-miracle-day-1-03-mortal-man-with-mortal-needs_shortfilms

It was on dailymotion (link above!). Enjoy, if that's the right word!

[wounded-melody.livejournal.com]

Also, isn't it a bit cruel to bring up Ianto like that? It's like she was saying "imagine if Ianto hadn't DIED and was here now he would be with you forever and ever but he's dead, sucks doesn't it?"

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

Well, that's Gwen- as subtle as brick to the head. And just as understanding! I'm glad it wasn't just me who thought there was something wrong with these scenes!

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

PS remember she's the HEART of TW, doling out compassion and understanding due to her amazing empathy and understanding! FAIL!

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely. Also, if Gwen is in any way trying to protect Jack, now that he's mortal, she might not want to remind him of the reasons he has to want to kill himself. Especially not if she's going to bring up the immortality condition with it, since that would then remind Jack that he's now mortal and really could kill himself.

[loofly.livejournal.com]

knowing full well he's just gone to another mans bed and is highly likely still there. Oh yeah mention his lost love whilst hes just been with another. Way to go teflon

[weis07.livejournal.com]

Torchwood as we saw it started with Gwen stumbling upon Jack’ team. MD started with everybody who doesn’t linked to Gwen dead. Instead we have Gwen, her dad, her mom, her husband, her daughter, her former colleague and poor mortal Jack that latched onto them. The shifting of the focus is obvious. Everything is about Gwen now one way or another. She can do anything – disable the alarm, sneak into the building full of security, hack computers, command Jack what to do, give wise advice, shoot from any type of weaponry, she knows martial arts etc.
And after this creators dare to say that “this is the same show”?!

As dr_doomsduck said in my LJ:

“…now she (Gwen) has her own team in Esther, Rex and that doctor. She has Jack all to herself, she has Rhys and Anwen, hell she even has her immortality opposed to Jacks mortality"

And considering Jack’ call to Gwen, it’s obvious that Gwen doesn’t care about Jack at all. Unless she mocks him, jokes about him, gives him orders or talks to him condescendingly. Way to show their oh so special soul mate connection, how they learn from each other, support each other, BFF etc.
Gwen behaves as if she is Torchwood now and Jack is just pathetic remnant of the old times. She certainly didn’t hesitate to take the commanding position. And feels very comfortable there too.
So, the gwenwood is arrived. And it’s horrible.

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

'And after this creators dare to say that “this is the same show”?!'

Grr... It's my own fault for watching this cr**- I'm seething even more than I was before the damned thing started. But I'm always a glutton for punishment. Mr wanda1969 didn't want to watch it at all, declaring he would rather cut his toenails or poke himself with sticks after the 1st episode. I have so far persevered... but I'm finding it a hard slog in between his disparaging comments and Gwen.
This look at the clip on dailymotion somehow appeased me a little, confirming as it did my views that the woman's an utter arse. And interesting to see that her 'skills' have been bumped up even more than in CoE. Seethe, seethe, seethe...

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

disable the alarm

I've got two theories. One: it was Jack who disabled the alarm with his wriststrap while the camera pointed the other way, but he didn't want to reveal its capabilities to Rex, so he asked Gwen in advance to pretend to hack it. Two: Gwen just entered the code she got earlier from their TW spy-tech, and her 'I can trick the system' comments were just empty posturing and exposition.

sneak into the building full of security

By the way, what did you think of her 'undercover' outfit? A la men-in-black ninja-wannabe. Way to look inconspicuous. I can't decide if that was supposed to be satire? Must have been; only it didn't really seem that way at the time...

shoot from any type of weaponry, she knows martial arts

Obviously, she developed and honed those skills while giving birth and raising baby Anwen, isolated in her remote safe house. Maybe she got herself some kind of 'how to be a super spy' video tapes. And sparred with Rhys every day, because he could instruct her fighting style so expertly. Yup.

it’s obvious that Gwen doesn’t care about Jack at all. Unless she mocks him, jokes about him, gives him orders or talks to him condescendingly.

See: no invincibility and pretense of happiness, no special treatment from Gwen. She now acts towards Jack the same as she does to every other person.

how they learn from each other

Must have been a line straight out of RTD's mouth. Who else would have come up with such nonsense? One, what did Jack ever need to be taught by Gwen, and two, Gwen's repeatedly shown herself incapable of learning.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to be lazy and copy more of my text on Weis07's LJ:

The conversation with Gwen is just well, sad from Jack's side and cruel on Gwen's. It's just the same old, Gwen has everything and Jack has nothing but Gwen...If her Brother/Husband/BFF/Soulmate calls her depressed and drunk, she doesn't care, she's to busy talking to the guy she married because no-one else would and the child that by her claims ruined her life. Wow, way to put it on the screen guys.

That moment, That could've been thé moment to show the viewers that Gwen was the heart and soul and that she cared about Jack like a lover/sister/bff/soulmate, she could've said: "You and me against the world baby!" or "Poor honey, why don't you come over here so I can take care of you!".

Instead she brings up a very, very sore point for the man(probably to chase him into one of his broody moods, well job Gwen! that'll get rid of him), rubs it in his face and then promptly ignores him. In fact, from this scene I could gather that Gwen cared more about Ianto than Jack because if Miracle Day would've happened sooner, Jack would've died instead.

I could also gather that Gwen knows very well what gets Jack to go away (as I mentioned above) and actively uses it against him, when that doesn't work (because she is literally the only thing he's got left), she proceeds to ignore him alltogether. This scene creates so much dissonance between the interviews and the story that you'd almost think you're watching three series further in the story, where Jack and Gwen already had some sort of affair and then broke up.

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

Pah! LJ just wiped my comment- I'll try to remember what I said:
Way to go! Make someone even more dpressed and then hang up- and I thought it was impossible to like the character less...
It does, however, make you wonder what brief RTD gave the new writers- 'she's the heart and soul of TW, y'know', or did they just watch the old series and decide she wasn't the heart and soul after all and therefore decided to continue in the same vein???
Argh- I shouldn't watch stuff that makes me this angry.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

...because if Miracle Day would've happened sooner, Jack would've died instead.

Ouch! I hadn't thought of that. *Needs drink.*

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Pretty much what everyone else has said. Its unwatchable. I once again went through the trouble to download and fast forwarded to the sexy times. Meh! This is what the bit stink is about? What the hell are they even going to cut from the UK version. This hysterical woman is very disappointed.

The Ianto mention felt totally gratuitous and cruel. "See we mentioned Ianto 'respectfully'

I have a little different take on the scene where Jack calls Gwen. For Mommy Gwen her baby is all important. Certainly more important than Jack. She can be a bad friend, but not a bad mommy. Oh course shooting the gun holding the kid and wanting the child to come with her is proof of that. Where I come from you do anything to keep your child safe. YOu don't take you child into danger. (If this is good parenting you just have to wonder a bit at RTD's childhood).

And yes, Gwen can do anything now. She's the one who knows how to disable the alarm, she's the one with the contacts. Its badass Gwen and dopey Jack out to save the world. No wonder Jack has so much hostility toward Brad, because he sure isn't the one wearing the pants (or trousers if you like) in TW.

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

I will watch the UK version on Thursday to verify that this scene has been edited out. Perhaps it was edited by the BBC because it wasn't sexy ENOUGH!!?

I am sure that miniGwen will turn out to be as selfish as her mother with that as an example- being a 'mommy' doesn't stop you from being downright rude! I'm sure she could have spared fifteen seconds to brush Jack off politely.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Ianto mention seemed to come from nowhere to me too. So Gwen knows that Jack is drunk, upset, just had meaningless sex, and wants to talk about their relationship - clearly, mentioning his dead lover is a natural progression of the conversation.

You're absolutely right: in the s1&2 they used to clumsily plug about Gwen's amazing (and clearly non-existent) powers of compassion, and now the track had switched to her brilliant parenting instincts (just as absent from her actual on-screen actions).

[excentric397.livejournal.com]

Seriously? That was it? They couldn't even give him an uncut scene? So glad I'm not watching MD. Also, it appears that regardless of what RTD thinks of Gwen, the writers disagree. They always seem to show her in the worst possible way, emphasizing her selfishness. Maybe he doesn't watch his own shows, so doesn't actually know this?

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

Perhaps RTD doesn't recognise selfishness the way that others do- perhaps he thinks of it as perfectly acceptable behaviour...

[kaitelynn.livejournal.com]

really...that was the big gay sex scene that was so controversial the bbc had to cut it...I think I've seen hotter guy on guy on regular tv...and this was made for Starz...hell I think RTD needs to watch the American version of QAF for some really hot guy on guy...and I'm not even going to say anything about the call with super pooper scooper cooper...but hell she showed her sensitivity towards Jack when he was whining about his arm itching and she said that he was basically wussier than Rhys...granted probably nothing but really, the dude hasn't been mortal for over 2000 years...and he's from the future...he's forgotten what it feels like to heal like a normal person...should his soulmate and the heart and soul of TW have remembered that....yup now I remember why I'm not watching miracle wipe out

thinking I'm gonna go watch some dvds for some real sex scenes...hmmm jack/ianto meet brian/justin....that's a combo for ua

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Now, this is the man she has been pining over for the first 2 series, the man she regards as a friend, a team mate- and now (supposedly) the most vulnerable person on Earth as he's mortal and everyone else is immortal. But she can't even afford him a goodbye when he's 'down'.

Maybe that's the reason: Jack's vulnerable now, and has stopped pretending he's always just fine, so Gwen doesn't think he's heroic enough for her to concern herself with. It's not like she ever saw or valued Jack as a person, anyway; now that he's, as you put it, 'down', she must feel perfectly entitled to straightforwardly treat him like dirt.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

she must feel perfectly entitled to straightforwardly treat him like dirt.

Just like she treats everyone else.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Re Gwen's behaviour, it just occurred to me that she's just like Rex.

Think about it - self-centered, all-about-me, inconsiderate, brings up dead loved ones' names unnecessarily, skilled at everything they do, able to convince most people/governments to do what they want unless they're innocent-but-brutally-targeted-by-the-government, etc., etc., etc.

No wonder I don't like Rex.

[h3llfrz.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one who noticed that the "awesome" man sex was mixed in with a straight sex scene? Watching it I felt like they did it that way to throw the viewers off of the fact that 2 men were going at it. It didn't work though 'cause that Rex dude's sex scene was lamer than Jack's.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

pfff, ever watched spartacus? Starz is not shy about gay-sex scenes and on that note, the Beeb has the Night watch, not exactly a stranger to that stuff either, so I doubt that's it. Maybe the writer wasn't very keen on it, or just wanted the raunchy scenes alltogether and out of the way for the rest of the story.

[slns7552.livejournal.com]

Okay, forgive my ignorance but I'm not watching Miracle Crap. My first question is:
Wasn't Rex fatally wounded but didn't die and doesn't he have a hole in his chest that doesn't heal but does ooze and someone had sex with him and the gaping, oozing chest wound didn't bother her?
Second question:
I watched the tape of Barrowman where he said that the fans will get to hear Jack and Gwen talk about Ianto. So what everyone who watched it is saying is Jack called Gwen while sitting in bed next to his one-night stand and she mentioned Ianto in passing? How is that talking about Ianto?
Third question:
Barrowman in the interview also said that we would find out about someone Jack loved who made him who he was. Who was he talking about that had such an impact on Jack's life? Was it the Doctor?

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

No. 1:
Hey, what can you do if the guy you fancy just happens to have a suppurating wound? Get a bandage and ignore it I guess.
Answer no.2: Yep, it was hardly an in depth conversation- but I've only seen the clip, not the whole episode. And as I've said, Gwen wasn't exactly the ideal confidante/friend here.
Answer no.3: I have no idea!! Perhaps it was the Doctor- or Rose (God, I hope not!). I was rather hoping that in an amazing piece of Top Secret production, they'd got GDL in but I know it was only a fantasy, and I guess House of the Dead put the kibosh on that!
As for Miracle Day- based on the 1st two episodes, your name is more correct for it!

[jsks.livejournal.com]

for those who held out hope that jane espenson would be more attuned to fans then rusty abandon that idea right f****** now because she ain't. just read an snippet from comic-con in cinemablend(just woke up which means link and me not so much now) in which she states that the phone call in the middle of the night with its mention of ianto is the thing she is the proudest off because" we need to hear about ianto, we need to know what they are thinking when they get a chance to stop and take a breath, the whole episode is about stopping and taking a breath" end qoute. deep calming breath, at this point i thought that between rusty and eve with all the nonsense that have said over the years i would not be shocked by the stupid but to hear je bragg that she is proud of what imho highlights why i am a proud member of aga is beyond words to express.
more when i calm down.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

tells you how much JE likes Gwen then XD. Fuck, I really don't care about the writers on that show. RTD has already admitted that they have to do what he says or they're gone.

But, seriously...Jane Espenson is not a dumb writer, when she puts a moment in her episode that is so obviously AGA I would almost immediatly say she does it on purpose. That she's proud of it, well, that only proves how much she dislikes Gwen and possibly Jack as well.

[illyrya.livejournal.com]

First I have a question is RTD planning to use magic and heal everybody that has been mortally wounded? Or is it going to be you are not Gwen therefore you are not important so just die. kind of thing

Second When did it happen? How did I miss this wonderful and mystical team compose of just Jack and Gwen? Because last time I check there was Suzie, Owen, Tosh, Ianto and Jack. And then it was Owen, Tosh, Ianto Gwen, and Jack. Then it was Ianto Jack and Gwen and then Ianto was dead, Jack went bye bye on a space ship and Gwen went on to motherhood (or to traumatize her kid), so please if somebody could let me know when it happen I will be thankful.

Third That scene is not respectful nor is it an in depth conversation about Ianto. Is like yeah he die but he was just a FRIEND!!! as opposed to you Gwen who is the light in his eyes, the best thing that happens to him and he will be fine as long as he has her by his side. Please don't make me gag the scene was just another way to diminish the Ianto's character importance while giving old TW fans who like his character (also Owen and Tosh can't forget them) some sort hope that maybe Ianto will be brought back or that they will give him the respect he deserved.