Accountability

[themadthing.livejournal.com]

I'm sure this has been said before but it's really been bugging me so I'll say it anyway. Having recently watched both "Cyberwoman" and "Day One" I was annoyed to say the least. In "Cyberwoman" two people are killed by/because of Lisa. Two. In "Day One" unnumbered people die because of Gwen, but Ianto is treated more harshly than her, both by the narrative and the characters, yet Gwen made a stupid mistake from mucking about and Ianto did what he did from love. So how is this fair?

Comments

[lily-1933.livejournal.com]

It was not fair. To be honest they both probably should have been fired. Ianto luckily didn't. Gwen sadly didn't. Gwen did in fact cause several deaths because she acted like the two year old that she is. I like to think that Jack didn't fire her because she reminded him of Rose. In the fact that Gwen is completely ordinary. Ianto did get punished. I like to think Jack didn't fire Ianto because he wanted to get into Iantos pants.

[themadthing.livejournal.com]

Personally I reckon that he didn't fire Ianto coz he understood what it's like to lose someone you love, after all the people he's lost because of his immortality. I agree with your thoughts about Gwen totally.

[tardisjournal.livejournal.com]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute, one could argue that Gwen's mistake was a result of a moment of first-day carelessness (when I first saw the episode I actually identified with her there--she seemed so awkward and her stupid stunt seemed the result of trying too hard to be cool), whereas Ianto's mistake involved deliberate subterfuge and months-long coverup. In that light, Ianto probably did deserve more discipline.

HOWEVER, when taken in the context of the entire series, it's clear that this is just the beginning of a pattern where Gwen repeatedly disobeys the rules, does whatever the hell she wants, and gets off scot-free every time. She is not a well-meaning person who just got off on the wrong foot the first day, but a selfish, self-centered person with no respect for Jack's or any other authority. Whereas Ianto becomes an exemplary employee, devoted to Torchwood and to Jack. So yeah... I agree with you, ultimately.

[excentric397.livejournal.com]

I was thinking the same thing re: the motivations behind their mistakes. Gwen was stupid, Ianto was cunning and deliberate. I agree with what you say about Gwen even more. Sometimes I thought Jack was an incredibly incompetent leader, so biased towards Gwen that he could see no fault in anything she said or did. I put it down to really, really terrible writing. You can't have a character meant to represent the audience who is so completely stupid, selfish, and annoying and have anyone with a brain like or respect her. I've given up on shows because even though the premise was great, I did not like any of the characters. And to show your leading character to be a complete idiot who thought with his dick and sometimes seemed not to have a brain at all, well, thank god we had Ianto, who mostly seemed to know what he was doing and the reasons he was doing it. Even when it all went horribly wrong, we understood why he did it and I think respected him for it. This show could have been so much more, and I am so grateful for the fan fiction that makes it so.

[ladyhatshepsut.livejournal.com]

I agree. As to watching the show, once Ianto was gone, so was I.

[rocky-oberlin.livejournal.com]

In answer to your argument of Gwen trying to be cool like the rest of the group, I would say that she wasn't taught very well when she was a Constable. If she had acted like that with the police department, she probably have been warned and then fired. I know that if I tried something like that in any hospital I worked at, I would be strung up by my thumbs. Figuratively, of course.

As for Ianto, I think that the memories of the whole day was punishment enough. There was nothing about him getting help for the trauma that he endured. In fact, there was nothing about the help any of the survivors would have gotten, either through UNIT or Torchwood. That day would give anyone PTSD, so the rumored month of suspension could have been the worst time of his life after the loss of Torchwood One and Lisa.

The first episode where we meet Gwen showed that she was selfish and thoughtless. Look at how she went into a restricted area and got that hospital worker killed. Even leaving her post on the line was an idiotic move that may get a disciplinary note in her file. I always thought Andy was a better choice; he might have been able to balance the humanity outside of Torchwood and the work Torchwood had to do.

Don't even get me started on the Brecon Beacons episode. Gwen was a MORON! in that one.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

he might have been able to balance the humanity outside of Torchwood

Now that part there - the supposed reason behind Gwen's presence in the team - that's exactly the utter bullshit. The team has plenty "humanity" and more as they are! "Normality", that maybe they are lacking a bit. And I totally agree that Andy would have been a much better "link to normal life" than Gwen; he's so unassuming, helpful, and practical.

The only good thing connected to Gwen is Rhys Williams. (Poor guy.)

[rocky-oberlin.livejournal.com]

I will give you the point on the "normality".That would probably be a better word for what they needed down there instead of humanity. That was the excuse for Gwen being the pushy (b)witch that she was and how she got away with it.

[sagrario martínez castro (from livejournal.com)]

The fanfiction will always be there, with a team (Jack, Ianto, Tosh, Owen) much better well written that in the show, a thousand times better. In the stories that I read, or Gwen isn´t there, or is completely irrelevant (more the first). Jack is a really competent leader and Ianto is a respected (and loved) member of the team. And Tosh and Owen are happy, they deserve it! About the new audio-stories of this year, will see. I have clear one thing: If Ianto, Tosh and Owen aren´t there, I have no interest in them (And I like Jack, but I´m really sick of Gwen).
And Torchwood could have been a wonderful show. It wasn´t because of Gwen and the obsession for the character/actress by RTD. With another writer Jack NEVER had shown any interest for someone like Gwen, and had been a perfect leader, clever, intelligent and brave (I see this in the show too,but we could see much more in a really well written show - without Gwen!!!- At least, in the show we all know Jack is in love with Ianto)

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Yup, RTD and his hard-on for Rose, and then Rose's expy Gwen. Except, in Rose's case, she's an impressionable, wide-eyed teen who's also, like her or not, gutsy, brave, and smart. Gwen, on the other hand, is supposed to be considered a grown woman, a responsible professional, and a mature individual - none of which is in fact apparent.

[sagrario martínez castro (from livejournal.com)]

About being a Constable, if you can see Gareth as PC Evans in the short "Bloody Norah", please do it (YouTube). It´s a small part, but you believe Gareth in it (and I don´t get tired of hearing him talking, he´s really hot! Wonderful voice!)You don´t believe Gwen as a PC, sorry.

[pfyre.livejournal.com]

I lay the blame for Gwen (character origin as well treatment throughout the series (including COE & Miracle Day)) at RTD's feet. The man for all his genius in the reboot of DW has had a hard-on for Eve since she was Gwyneth in 'The Unquiet Dead'. He sold Torchwood to the Beeb with the explanation of Gwen Cooper as being the eyes and ears of the audience as well as "The Heart" of Torchwood.

Unfortunately, she's been poorly written since the inception of the show straight through 'Miracle Day'. Right, from the first ep we've witnessed her failure to maintain her post' so she could satisfy her curiosity and lying to Rhys for no good reason about whether she had anything to do with the dead body in the alley (seems a precursor of her penchant for lying throughout the series). Then we have her in MD and suddenly she's an expert at computer/lock hacking AND when face to face with Oswald she starts spouting about her experience with killers, etc. when she was a constable. I call bullshit. Gwen was a newbie constable when she first encountered the Torchwood team. No way did she have ANY experience with killers - serial or not (Suzie does NOT count as far as I'm concerned).

One of the most maddening eps is from the second series - 'Adrift'. For all that I love the idea of Jack and Ianto playing naked hide'n'seek, I generally cannot watch the episode in repeats because Gwen angers me to the extreme. Her single-minded stubbornness in her absolute conviction that she's right no matter what. At the end of the episode despite the absolute disaster and pain she caused for Jonah and his mom, she's not learned a single thing. Instead she goes home and whines and sniffle to Rhys about how rough her day was. Grrrrrrrrrrrr...

Another bad!Gwen episode is from MD 'Immortal Sins'. Gwen in a panic that the bad guys have her family, she kidnaps Jack to trade him for her family. The problem I have with her actions in episode isn't that she panicked and grabbed Jack, it's that it takes hours to get to the site to deliver Jack to the baddies and not once during that time does her brain engage in anything EXCEPT justifying to herself that everything is Jack's fault so it's perfectly fine to deliver him to the baddies. Jack is way too forgiving of Gwen's actions.

Frankly, RTD's attitude toward Eve/Gwen (if he was straight he'd want to fcuk her, but since he's gay he just wants to be her), has rubbed off on the production(including the cast).

And I absolutely agree that all too often Ianto was given the raw deal while everyone practically fell all over themselves in regards to Gwen.

[sagrario martínez castro (from livejournal.com)]

Nothing to worry. The reality: people (most of it) fell in love with Ianto and many of the audience (disliked or/and hated Gwen). It´s sure with Ianto and Jack together (because Jack with Gwen became a supporting character and he was the leader!!!!) there would be more seasons of Torchwood.