Erm... Okay.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

I thought that I'd read the first fic that came up on my flist. And just my luck it was a Jack/Gwen fic (with a bit of Jack/Ianto and Ianto bashing included and GDL + GDL fan bashing in the comments) But then that's what you get for first come-first served.

But it just got me thinking, we keep our opinions to ourselves on AGA, don't we? And we only 'make a fuss' when we're invited too or told to defend our views.

Our Gwen bashing fic *stays* here, I think. (And yes, my promised fic is coming...)

But I think we should have a pat on the back for being courteous :-D

Comments

[luvinthe88and20.livejournal.com]

Oh I think I know the fic and author you are talking about. That is typical of that person.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Possibly.
I'm naming no names though, don't want to be called 'bitching' after all.
But I'm actually really rather surprised it's meant to be *us* who are verment and insulting anyone who thinks good of Eve and Gwen.

[f-and-a-fics.livejournal.com]

totally agree!! We have very nice manors when it comes down to it (:

[f-and-a-fics.livejournal.com]

by the way what fic is this you're talking about? :S

[flabagash.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, some of thoses comments were horrible...
my friends don't like GDL/Ianto and janto, they're all devoted gwackers, so i thought i heard every reason why people could possibly think gwack > janto, but some of those comments were low. I mean, i'm knida new to this group, but i've never noticed people saying a bad word about Eve herlself, and cerntainly not her apperance, infact people have complemented it.... i can't believe they called GDL "bland, balding and plump" *shock*
And they ever went to offend his fans.... some people really make me annoyed, she is now one of them, i couldn't even face reading the fic >

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

I was a little taken aback with those comments.

Well, I was a little taken aback by the fic as well but, as I said, beggars can't be choosers.

We've (I think) has some trouble with people being rude about Eve and that's why (again I think) we became no anonomus comments. So we've got a kind of rule (again I think.)

[caz251.livejournal.com]

The only thing I can really say on this is that the two halves of the fandom are going to have to disagree on the matter of pairing. Even though we may have differing opinions though we should still be courteous to those of differing opinions. I therefore congratulate us gwenbashers who warn of our bashing and make sure fic content is highlighted to a prospective reader before they read.

I myself am rather unkown and I tend to stick in the background, commenting in few places. However, all my fics are posted in places I feel the users wont be offended, I don't even post my Janto fics to Jackxianto if they are gwenbash.

However, the idea of us all being good reminds me, and I'm sorry if I'm intruding and putting something in here that should maybe be another thread but I've been thinking about the lack of organisation of the gwenbashing on FF.net, myself being one of the bashers and thought about us needing our own C2 on there to balance out the Gwack communities. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

I understand the arguing about the pairing. That's just life really isn't it? No one's going to agree because we're ALL right (but really we are, just humouring them...)

That's the point, we're generally open and courteous about it, either saying 'Gwen!Bashing' or 'don't read if you are an avid Gwack fan' etc.

That's the thing, there are some fics that count as Gwen!bash but are simply normal fic as well as the avidly Gwenbashing fic. And it's the matter of reading them the right way and... that makes no sense ignore me.

GOod idea. I don't really use my fanfic.net much anymore, but that's probably sensible.

*reads comment*

I'm talking gibberish and I've got an English exam tomorrow... so screwed!

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

wow. i'm glad i still have that person filtered so she never shows up on my f-list.

as one of the few males around here, i always find it interesting that derogatory comments about a man are considered acceptable but make a single negative comment about a woman regarding weight or total lack of acting capability and you get run through with a hot poker. and not in a good way.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

I know. It's kind of weird. I never get insulting people *because* of their acting ability or whatever. They can be 'fat', 'old', 'bald' or 'ugly' and a good actor/actress. They've not mutually exclusive, a little rude yes, but nothing to do with their acting!

But the difference between men and woman actors... just weird.

[shambolicasfuck.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised. This person is such a... urgh.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Well... I'm trying not to get involved when it comes to the author but from what I've leant it's not unusaral for them.

[gracie-musica.livejournal.com]

Is it sad that my first reaction was "YAY SHIPWAR"?

They make me lol. Always. No matter the fandom. As much as I love the show and as much blood, sweat, and tears I pour into my fanfic and however many discussions I have about the show with my friends (including some fun pro-Gwen fans), I have to keep in mind the mantra of MST:3K

Just repeat to yourself, it's just a show, you should really just relax!

Also? Someone needs to get the hidden video camera out of my house, because they know what I look like! ;)

[luvinthe88and20.livejournal.com]

I need to start using that mantra b.c I have gotten uptight about this kind of stuff before.

[elanor12.livejournal.com]

That may be strange, but that kind of comportement usually make me dislike a character/pairing even more. When the fans of a character/pairing are bitchy and plain mean, that annoys me to no end, even if I kind of liked them at first. (but no worry here, I was never a fan of Gwen/Jack, so it made me just hate it even more!) My mind made unconscious links between this character/pairing with the mean comments and peoples...

Ummm, that was a bit rubbish. Sorry, headache+english not first language= rubbish at english *lol*

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

It just puts you off. If that's the kind of people that you'd be hanging out with in that ship. That's why I like the ships that are cheerful and not based on bitching (because to be fair AGA isn't a shipping group, we can represent everyone not just one sector).

It made enough sense... :-D

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

16 and skinny my friend. :-D

*highfive*

But seriously now, there's nothing to do with the fans on which ship they like. That's why this sort of thing is done on the 'net you shouldn't be able to attack people like that.

And de-lurkings great more people :-D

[to-question.livejournal.com]

Don't people jump all over our backs when they feel that we insult Eve, but insulting GDL is all peaches and happiness? I've people who like Gwen accuse people like us of spreading vitriol. Hmm...seems like people in glass houses shouldn't proceed to stone their lodgings. A huge wag of the finger in their general direction. A tip of the hat to all of you lovely people.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

We're civalised :D

[grizzabella1.livejournal.com]

It looks like the story in question has been removed from Torch_Wood Institute. But what is ironic is that the story itself makes everyone look bad but Ianto. As I see it, Jack is portrayed as a Heartless Arse and Gwen as (assuming that she agrees to bed Jack) an Adulterer (not to mention being the kind of girl that would sleep with a friend's boyfriend, I believe there is a special place in hell for them).

As far as the Anti Fan and Anti Actor Comments. I believe that as soon as the commentors get their own fans and TV shows I will take them seriously.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Ohhh gossip. No bad phantom, you are not to get involved in this... :-D

I think the idea was to make him look pathetic and needy.

Well said.

[jo02]

I definitely know the author you are talking about.
I've reached the stage that I berate myself every time I click on a new one of theirs because I always come away annoyed. They used to balance their ire better, now they just aim their annoying fic at as many people as they can.
And we should pat ourselves on the back for having taste as well as courtesy.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Perfect icon. :-)
I think I should learn when it comes to reading fic. I was depraved.
*pats back*

[dragonsrmd.livejournal.com]

Well as someone who is a not quite middle aged overweight *faghag* I couldn't give a f**k to this individuals opinion of who she thinks I am! I've had worse insults in my life and those of an anonymous stranger, lack weight, originality and impact!

The more personal comments towards GDL were either designed to provoke an argument, or find someone to agree and therefore validate what they believe, either way it's sad, and I'd better end there before I drift of into psychobabble mode.

I enjoy what's on this com mostly because I've never warmed to Gwen as a character and I'm interested in others perspective, and I enjoy reading good stories, and insults aside it's fun here, which I think is the point! :)

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

It's not so much the words I think, more the generalisation.

Exactly :-D

[jsks.livejournal.com]

yes we do.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

:-D

[jsks.livejournal.com]

the above comment was intended for the thread that our merry band rocks.
now for the "wtf" comment. ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
a. for a writer who ships gwack why does k hate so them so. jack needs permission to have an affair, why does ianto keeps jack's penis in jar when not in use? is jack so cockwhipped that he dare not follow his heart to true love? is ianto drugging him? does ianto beat him.
gwen no matter how you much you try to cover in hearts and flowers comes of as skank. betraying rhys and her marriage vows or did we miss the part gwen slipped in about said vows were in effect only if jack did not want to jump her bones?gwen not understand friendship, the you do not do a friend's bf? when does gwen do the next shiny thing comes along and jack is no longer interested,hem, once a cheater always a cheater. k may not realize it but her story instead of bashing ianto bashes her otp to hell and back.
never bash gdl- don't like ianto fine, just leave the actor alone.
i like eve and sometimes gwen and agree that writers sometimes make me crazy with how they write her, oh well it is their ball and that is why we have fan fic.
i like this little corner of fandom because we don't spend all our time trying convert the other part of the fandom or rant how rtd is ruining torchwood, oh wait i just thought of something k, torchwood is rtd's baby. just don't understand why stay in fandom you hate so much.
we do rock.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

It's not really very in character but I agree with Gwen, I do think she suffers because of her writing. Her affaire with Owen I disliked but it made sense moving on to Jack is a bit too... Mary Stu.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

I've thought on this and decided that rather than let my blood pressure go any higher, I've come to the conclusion that the offending parties are simply jealous because the writers have decided to go Janto instead of Gwack.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Very likely. And to be fair we can get riled when (for example 'Something Borrowed') they have very Gwacky scenes, althought they gave us the dance...

[grizzabella1.livejournal.com]

Ok I just went back and read some more comments on that fic and I wonder what is wrong with those people.

I think a sensitive and vulnerable man is quite refreshing. I guess you need to have a little more life experience to appreciate that. I've seen my share of arseholes,"nice guys" rock.

Secondly, when were we ever told that Jack is incapable of monogamy. We have quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, he was even married once. It's understandable that he would become shy of becoming attatched after mourning so many deaths. But what we have seen of the 51st century (I'm thinking of the DW episodes) pair bonding is still prominent. Plus Jack came from what seems to be a traditional nuclear family.

Finally it must be said that if Jack wanted to have Gwen he would have. He's had plenty of oppertunity. However I don't think they would last a week. They constanly argue and both want to be the center of attention. They both use their sexuallity to manipulate others.

It would blow up, blow over and both would go back to there respective corners and glare at each other. Gwen would run back to Rys, cause the poor sap would forgive her. But Ianto wouldn't recover from that. Jack would lose it all just for a fuck. I think he knows better.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

But Ianto wouldn't recover from that. Jack would lose it all just for a fuck. I think he knows better.

I think that Ianto is stronger than that and if Jack dumped him for Gwen and then came crawling back, Ianto (i'd hope) would have the balls to tell him to fuck off.

That fic and the comments to it, say more about the people writing them than about the characters.

[sleepyheathen.livejournal.com]

I'm so confused. How, exactly was Ianto emotionally blackmailing Jack into a relationship? Why is Gwen being a skanky ho a good thing? When did Ianto take Jack's balls hostage? Who are these people that those comments about GDL are considered okay?

I can understand not being in line with a ship, but to try to make it less by ruining ALL of the characters just doesn't make sense.

Mostly I'm trying to figure out the 'emotional blackmail' thing. Where was I? Was I watching a different version of series 2?

Of course, I've known of the author's anti-ship vitriolic ways for years from another fandom, and whilst I don't have her blocked from showing up on my f-list, I do just skip right past, for the good of my, often achy, brain.

(And for the overweight, middle-aged, faghag comment: I'm an early 20's, hourglass figured, bisexual (with a serious yen for the girlies, right now) woman. )

[criccieth.livejournal.com]

quite agree. I've seen gwen/jack shippers go on about how Ianto is an emotional drain on Jack because he's so weak (yes, all those tears in Cyberwoman are him being a snivelling little shit, as is the panic in Countrycide when he's about to be bled to death.) AND AT THE SAME TIME, he's somehow forcing Jack into a monogamous relationship that Jack hates, was never meant to have and can't get out of.

Like you say - you end up thinknig: what Torchwood have YOU been watching for the last two years?

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

I think what bugs me the most is the author's assertion that her interpretation is "real!Ianto". We're all fans of the show, we write fanfic, and therefore we all place our own interpretations on the various characters, according to how we want them to be.
In the end the only "real" or "true" interpretation of the character is that given by the actor whose character it is and the writers who script the dialogue. Ianto is as GDL personally sees him.
I can accept that other fic writers might see the character less than favourably, and that's their prerogative. But to spout that their interpretation is "real!Ianto" is insulting to both GDL and the show's writers.
And what disappoints me is that the author is inconsiderate enough to allow a personal attack on GDL to remain in view on her LJ.

[sleepyheathen.livejournal.com]

Hadn't you heard? Canon!Ianto is a hysterical mass hallucination on the part of the show-runners/actors/het-female-faghag-fans and real!Ianto is what all the people who haven't sipped of the coolade see.

I believe the author thinks that because she left a (late-to-the-party) comment saying she discouraged such personal attacks that's all that she needs to do to appear fair&balanced, but she uses such a sweet tone with the negative commenter, that it looks to be only for show to me.

[jennhli.livejournal.com]

It has always been my policy when leaving feedback for a fic that if I can't write at least one good comment don't leave anything at all.

I read the one in question and had to really, really force myself not to leave any comment since it all would have come down to 'what drugs are you taking and if not you should be' because there is no way the author was watching the same episodes I was.

And the comments about GDL and his family should have gotten someone banned at the least.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

I didn't comment because otherwise I'd have been a little too negative, but it's controlling yourself I find.

True. I think there are two torchwood aired, the actual one to normal fans and then the Gwackers Torchood straight to their TVs.

[maxine-mirkwood.livejournal.com]

Folks might like to consider the fact that many people believe that the original poster and the one who first chimes in to agree with her are actually one and the same person. It's an old disused journal that hasn't been updated in years and the opinions and expression are strangely similar... ;-)

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

But then the Gwackers could say that everyone here is only just 1 person. We're all fake journals from one devoted anti-Gwenner, therefore Gwen is actually much more loved than we say. Because our opinions only count for one person. Duh :-D

[slns7552.livejournal.com]

I'm just a reader. I have no imagination when it comes to writing. I read the fic out of curiosity and didn't think highly of it at all. I'm a Gwen-hater but I can back up my reasons with logic, examples from the shows and life experiences. The people who commented on GDL made it too personal and they must be thinking of another GDL. I may be a 51 year old faghag, although I don't think so such I only like Harry/Draco from Harry Potter and Janto, but I know hot and GDL is HOT!

As to Gwen bashing, maybe the writers here exaggerate her faults but they are still canon. I just don't understand why tptb and Gwackers think lying, cheating, and retconning your SO are virtues.

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Exactly we exaggerate the truth but don't make things up.

I know i'm late but can i still come to the party?

[chester-kat.livejournal.com]

Is it wrong that the first thing that came to my head after reading that gwack drivel and it's comments was:

ahhh! Gwackers! Man the cannons! The ship warz has begun! LOL

Seriously, i couldn't even bring myself to read the entire fic and i only managed to stomach the first few comments before laughing hysterically and wondering which brand of glue they were sniffing when they wrote them. What a monumental waste of time and energy. They should be glad we're polite and keep to ourselves here at AGA cause if we didn't they would be ripped to shreds by our ass kicking fics and ability to stay grounded in reality.

At least that's what I think as an ADULT and someone clearly able to distinguish reality from fiction/tv

But the (not as yet) middle aged, overweight faghag in me is screaming -

If it's a fight they want? It's a fight they'll get! *puts on her newspaper pirate hat and brandishes her season 3 promo pics*

Re: I know i'm late but can i still come to the party?

[phantomreviewer.livejournal.com]

Ship wars are always fun :-D

*wants a pirate hat*

[amythest-n-ice.livejournal.com]

I have only one thing to say on the Gwack subject. Janto is CANNON, not that fan fic writers need any such thing. Gwack is all in the minds of Gwen, and people who think tinfoil hats will protect them from Aliens, instead of a huge raygun.

As to GDL, he isn't exactly my cup of tea looks wise, but he isn't hard on the eye, and pudgy? he looks pretty well proportioned to me.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

The thing about GWACK though, is that it is inherently more Gwen-bashing than most of what happens here.

I mean, GWACK fans are basically cheering on the idea that Gwen will quite happily either cheat on Rhys with Jack or dump Rhys should she have the opportunity to hook up with Jack.
They're portraying Gwen as not only somebody who will happily cheat on her boyfriend/husband (okay, canon), but who would also shack up with her best friends partner, and they treat it like a good thing.

But yet, we're the ones who 'bash' Gwen.
(I really need to write that Meta)