Rant about Border Princes

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm new around here, but have been enjoying the Gwen bashing very much. :) After finishing Border Princes I seriously need to join in.

I actually quite liked the book itself, except for the Gwen and Jack parts and even though I know that in the first three books I can expect lots of Gwen love and the books don't need to be read in order, my brain just doesn't let me read them any other way, so rant and spoilers behind the cut.


From what I understand books 1-3 take place before Cyberwoman, right? I mean not only is Ianto barely mentioned in them, but we also have Gwen's wonder at all the new experiences constantly shoved down our throats.

So, even with a very generous application of math, Gwen has been a part of Torchwood for 1.5-2 months tops. According to this simply incredible timeline, it has even been less than a month.

Then why the hell does Jack tell her that she is going to take over Torchwood if he doesn't get back from the chapel (p. 108)?!?!?!?!?!?!? C'mon, I can somehow buy her taking over after season 1 (although I'd have loved to see a power struggle between her and Owen), but before she has even minimum training? When she doesn't know shit about aliens or Torchwood or just how to handle a damn chisel? Nobody can learn a job like Torchwood in a bloody month. Nobody. Not even Gwen bloody Cooper. Especially not Gwen bloody Cooper, I should say.

Then minutes later she is turned into the saviour for Jack and Tosh, while those two are whimpering and whining, and I seriously wanted to throw the book across the room. Because, of course, Gwen is so bloody brilliant that she has an inspiration on how to save those two, even while debilitated by a headache (note the sarcasm, as John would say).

I don't even take offence in Gwen's characterisation. She is just as annoying as she is in canon. But Jack's? The man portrayed in the book is not Captain Jack Harkness, but a little, starstruck wimp, who thinks Gwen can do no wrong and has no abilities of his own. Does that sound like the Jack we know from canon? And this is what really annoys me. That Jack becomes a bad leader in order to show how great Gwen is and so she can shine. Bleargh.

One thing about Gwen that, in my opinion, actually made her more likable than in canon, is the way she handels her affair with James. Yes, she still cheats on Rhys and for most of the book she is too afraid to talk to him about it, but she doesn't go behind his back as much. She at least has the guts to move out and doesn't pretend that everything is okay. Affairs happen, relationships die and I can accept that, but what I really don't like is when somebody is too much of a bloody coward to own up to their actions and feelings. And this was, I think, less evident in that subplot of the book than in the series.

She's still annoying, though.

Comments

[caz251.livejournal.com]

Yeah the Gwenlove is a bit much in that book. As for her leading Torchwood, even after series one, a load of bull i mean come on she didn't even know who UNIT where. In my opinion between series 1 and 2 Owen and Tosh would have led in the field while letting Gwen believe she did and Ianto would have held the rest together only getting her to sign things if necessary or forging Jack's signature.

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

*g* I like your interpretation of things. It also explains why everybody is so quick to jump when she orders them to do something. Owen, especially, I can't see taking orders from the newbie and taking those orders seriously.

And I totally agree that even after season 1, she still wouldn't have been ready. For her not-looking-at-the-bigger-picture mentality if nothing else. However, it is slightly more plausible than after a month. That's like telling the intern to take over a multi-million dollar corporation in case the CEO disappears.

[dru_evilista]

I actually seem to have an amazing ability to block out Gwen in the books. I'll be talking about a book with someone, and they'll moan about the Gwen heaviness and I'll go "....Gwen was in the book? I was just focusing on the Owen parts." Like Slow Decay, people aways talk about that being a Gwen book, I don't even remember her parts, I just remember Owen's story line.

I'm lucky this way. I can read and enjoy the books without getting the foaming at the mouth hate (well, ok except for Twilight Streets and Sky Points, which tend to make me have to keep putting them down and breathe, to get though the Tosh/Owen gag inducing parts)

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

You lucky sod. :) Since Ianto is my focus in the series, I don't have much to focus on in the first books and notice the Gwen centricity so much more. Although Owen was almost as absent as Ianto in Border Princes.

[dru_evilista]

Yeah, not a lot of Owen in Border Princes. ...really the only part I remember is the tazering the aliens out of the old people's heads part. I remember that, cause when I was reading the book I has a really bad cold and was wishing so very hard Torchwood would show up and tazer aliens out of my head an tuck me into bed with some retcon so I could wake up healthy, with a clean house and just vaguely confused about what just happened.

[gracie-musica.livejournal.com]

Yes, the first three books take place before Cyberman, which is why Ianto's barely mentioned and when he is he's paranoid about them being down in the archives.

I didn't see Jack as whiny -- more concerned, about Tosh more than about himself. And, to be honest, I interpreted Jack telling Gwen to take over as "take over the case until I get back."

I also blame a lot of stuff on James' brainwashing camouflage. I'm also very glad that I read Border Princes after seeing Adam because if I had done it the other way I would despise the episode.

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Jack is definitely more concerned about Tosh than about himself (which makes sense), but it's not just that scene where he seems very indecisive to me. Maybe it really is the influence of James (he even says in that scene that something is affecting him, putting him off his game), but it just didn't ring true with me, because the other characters don't seem affected by his brainwashing (at least not that way).

And Jack does specifially say that Gwen is to take over Torchwood. Though why he thinks that whatever is happening there is able to kill him, remains a mystery to me. Even if they were stuck in 1841, Jack could still take the long road and be back in the hub by the time Gwen and James get back.

[criccieth.livejournal.com]

don't forget they're ALL at the same time being brainwashed by the "space sudoku" game.

[slns7552.livejournal.com]

Slow Decay is more a Rhys book I thought. If you look really closely for the little bit of Ianto parts like I did there were a little mention in each book that hinted that he was hiding something. To be honest I've read the first 9 and they have all disappointed me. They may as well changed the name to "The Gwen Chronicles" and be done with it.

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

I just started Slow Decay, but I'm already happy about more Rhys content. :)

And I definitely noticed the Ianto bits. Rare enough as they are. I do hope that he gets more 'screentime' in the following books and not just in the books that focus on him.

[pitac89.livejournal.com]

My problem with Jack in this book was how okay he was with Gwen and James hooking up. In the series he's always pushing her to hold on to her normal life (meaning Rhys), but in the book it was like, "eh, whatever, go shag the guy who's obviously a plant of some sort. I'll be over here fiddling with this blinky thing and contemplating various ways to seduce Ianto, who remains mysteriously immune to my advances." At least I like to think he was planning ways to seduce Ianto.

And I didn't see Gwen and Rhys's relationship as dying in this book, rather Gwen giving it up when something supposedly 'better' came along. She actually made a point of thinking that Rhys wasn't good enough for her with that line a about the wedding march. (I actually think the Imperial March would be a kickass replacement for "Here Comes the Bride", and several people in my theatre class agreed with me.)

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

At least I like to think he was planning ways to seduce Ianto.
I like to think that too, but that was another strange thing about Jack in this book: he seemed pretty much asexual. (Here's a sentence I never thought I'd ever write.) No suggestive comments, no flirting, nothing. Very disappointed in Jack in this one.

But then isn't a new relationship always supposedly better? Because otherwise you'd stick to you old one, wouldn't you? And it's not dying, it's already dead and partially decomposed. :) But at least Gwen isn't pretending it's still alive.

[eatbreathelive.livejournal.com]

I picked this book up and I've started reading it...but the Gwen Byline is really getting to me!

And about the OCCness of them all...I've got two theories

#1 Someone kidnapped The whole team except Gwen (because she was busy sleeping in or something) and have sent down holograms but they don't have their personality down pat...And of course Gwen wouldn't notice this.

#2. The team want a holiday but they don't want Gwen to come so they clone themselves so that Gwen and the Aliens don't realize they are gone...But these clones don't have some of the same personality as their real selves

I still haven't worked up the courage to finish reading Border Princess...

[honeycakehorse.livejournal.com]

Don't know how much you know about the plot of the book, but your ideas aren't bad. :)

And I think the book does get better as it goes on. The case gets more interesting once you get a bit of insight into all the different OCs.

What makes you feel as if all of them are OOC? Just wondering, because apart from Jack, I felt like they were pretty spot on.

[eatbreathelive.livejournal.com]

OH I just feel not all of the characters are OCC...Just Jack and Tosh...It was mostly Jack but at moments I just felt Tosh was a bit different...But maybe thats just me

Border Princes

[mickeyk.livejournal.com]

I don't even take offence in Gwen's characterisation. She is just as annoying as she is in canon. But Jack's? The man portrayed in the book is not Captain Jack Harkness, but a little, starstruck wimp, who thinks Gwen can do no wrong and has no abilities of his own. Does that sound like the Jack we know from canon? And this is what really annoys me. That Jack becomes a bad leader in order to show how great Gwen is and so she can shine. Bleargh.

Unfortunately, Jack being a crap leader is canon, see S1. *sigh*

Erm, hi, just found this comm, hope it's okay to post. :)

I cheered when Jack reamed her out slightly... and then banged my head on the desk repeatedly, when he apologized to her about that, a bit later. No, Jack, you were totally in the right to call her on her sh!t!! DON'T APOLOGIZE!!!!