JB on Gwen...

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Just read an interview with JB and his sister about his new Torchwood novel. Here's a little quote from it:

>> JB: Guess what? I agree with all of that. I’d also add that a TW story must have Gwen. She’s everyone. She’s us–the audience. I think Gwen is a critical point of view for every story to help the audience make sense of the TW world.<<

Anyone who want's to give her/his two cents about that in a comment? Because though I might be just a small part of the audience, it almost made me meet my dinner again when I read that he actually thinks Gwen is us/me.

http://scifibulletin.com/doctor-who/interviews/interview-john-and-carole-e-barrowman/#comment-10057

Comments

[backrose-17.livejournal.com]

Seriously? Gwen is everybody? Makes me wondered just how out of touch JB is with the fans of TW, Gwen is one, if not, the most hated character in all of Torchwood and she's suppose to be a critical point of view for us. I don't know if I should laugh because it is very laughable or cry at the sadness that Torchwood has become.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

I know JB can only sell the product his in, and let's face it as long as RTD is in charge of Torchwood Gwen will be the queen bee, even if 99% of the fandom are fed up with her.

What annoys me though is that nobody asked him for his view on Gwen, they asked about Jack, Carole answers about Jack and then comes along JB and kind off punches many of his fans into the face.

I think I need a t-shirt for his Panto this year saying in bolt, neon, glow-in-the-dark letters: I'm NOT Gwen f**cking Cooper. :P

[backrose-17.livejournal.com]

Except for the 'Lost Files' I barely care about the new stuff that has come out. The moment they killed Ianto they killed Torchwood for me, fanfiction is all I really care about now.

We all know that RTD will contiune shoving Gwen down our throats, but what I don't understand is why JB thought it was a good idea to bring up Gwen when no one mentioned her, it's almost like he doesn't want the loyal fans to buy his book.

I was cheeking out some of the comments and one said that they saw it was Ianto who was the true viewpoint of the show, the one people could relate to. And they're right, if anyone was the audiance, was us, it was Ianto. He had the job that nobody wanted to do and never got thanked for, he did everything in his power to save the woman he loved, he was loyal to a fault, he had a huge and caring heart. Yes if anyone was me it was Ianto.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Ianto was my viewpoint, too, for all the reasons you mentioned. But also because no matter how hard the world hit him (Lisa, Cannibals, Jack vanishing...) he always struggled on, he never just gave up and he fought his way out of the nightmares. That's what normal people (well minus the aliens and cannibals) do each and every day. With Gwen it's usually abrakebrabra and everything is fine again. And she doesn't even learn her lesson from it. The only time Ianto get's a "reset" was in Adam and that was not for his sake, only to destroy the alien of the week.

As for a female role model, that would be more Tosh for me. She's not you standard little cute female character, she has brains and balls. And though I think it's a bit unfair to her that she never ever get's at least a few happy months in a relationship, I think her bad luck with partners makes her much more likeable then Gwen Cheating Cooper. I guess most of us have fallen for the wrong guy at least once, but how many of us have spend years with a guy, and even married him in the end, when it's only "because nobody else will have me". That's insulting women in general.

Hell, I even can see myself more in Owen then in Gwen. Yes he can be an ar$e, BUT he also never pretends to be somebody else like Saint Cooper does. I think we learned far too late what's behind his character.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Amen to everything you've said.

JB's ass-kissing sycopanth behaviour makes me really sick. Excuse me while I go into a dark little corner and throw up.

[excentric397.livejournal.com]

backrose 17, I absolutely agree with every word you wrote here. Ianto Jones has had more impact on people than any character I can think of in any realm, except maybe the Harry Potter world. Thank heavens for fan fiction. It keeps him alive forever. We needn't have anything to do with TRD (Yes, TRD, not RTD.) and his sick view of the world. I've noticed some people are writing fics now with Rex and with Jack moving on and I just refuse to read them. I know how I want my world, and that's the one I'm sticking with. Without Ianto, there is no reason for Torchwood. And Ianto belongs to Jack, Jack belongs to Ianto. Period. Exclamation point.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

That's just plain disrespectful to the audience.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, he learned that from a master (git), didn't he?

[raynewton.livejournal.com]

All I know is, I want REAL Torchwood back, Tosh Owen, Ianto, Myfanwy, The Hub. I am NOT Gennie-Poo and never will be. Shame for the actress, the character started out well, but was very badly developed into a selfish cow

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Me, I'd like to se pre-Gwenninator Torchwood, with the amazingly disturbing Suzie in full action. Now, that would be a show worth watching!

[excentric397.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE that. Suzie was a great character, played by a lovely actress. With talent.

I am honestly puzzled by the idea that the Gwen they've written is expected to be seen as the heroine, the representative of every woman, when clearly, even the writers don't like her. She feels special because everyone but her died? Is that what she said in Mayonnaise Day, which I did not watch, thank heavens. How is that meant to come across as a good person, unless that is how TRD's twisted mind believes good people think and behave? The man needs some serious help, if that's the case.

[weis07.livejournal.com]

Close proximity to RTD and EM finally addled his brain... He's got brainwashed((

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Well, There is one redeeming line in the interview:

JB: One of the reasons it ended up being set after Miracle Day is that lots of people had to read and approve of the plot before we could begin. From Russell T Davies to the BBC and even Starz who still own a percentage of the rights.

Basically, there are so many grubby hands on Torchwood now that writing an authentic, personal idea in the official canon is impossible. It makes me feel both better and worse about the whole thing. Better because it means there are only a few rats in the nest. Worse, because the series is pretty much doomed to fail now. No matter who takes the steering wheel.

Funny how MD was supposed to be a critical message to large corporate assholes messing with the little man, when the production of it all was nothing short of THAT. No wonder Torchwood failed to stop the big bad in the end...Can you think of a better way to tell the world that the big guy always wins?

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

I don't think so, he would have to have a working brain for that and he just seems to want to mess around all the time like a big kid.
Time to grow up, John.
How true the story that he is protected from all the bad stuff by Carol is I could not say but for gods sake the man is coming up to fifty, it is about time he started looking at things for himself.
I could not get the site to let me post, it got all shirty so I gave up, but ALL the comments are saying basically, "You are out of your mind" "Bring back Ianto" etc. I guess he won't bother to read it thought because it might be adverse criticism and it might upset him......

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

The comments are made of awesome, aren't they? *g*

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Well if he wants to be in more TW, then he has to speak the party line. And that means Gwen will be in it.

But who is interested in TW anymore? Are viewers going to tune in for Rex? Or will they reboot it again with a whole new story with a bunch of red shirts.

Given the viewing stats for MD, I'm hoping that its dead.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I wonder who's stupid enough to still invest into this dead horse? For God's sake, it got worse viewing figures than Camelot, and Camelot was cancelled - although it wasn't half as bad as I'd expected it to be. Bad, yes, but not such utter tripe as Miracle Crap. And they want to renew that?

The mind boggles.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

My thoughts too, about the party line. We know how strict the BBC can be with holding actors to account, and does JB not still have a working contract with them? Assuming he does, and knowing the BBC apparently thinks RTD is all kinds of wonderful *gag* then JB would probably still be pretty restricted in what he can or can't say when it comes to anything Torchwood.

Personally, I think the way Gwen is treated in the new book speaks louder than any any half-arsed statements he might make.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

What happens in the book - I won't be buying it so spoil me, please!

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

When I finish it, I'll post a spoilers review on my DW page behind a cut, for anyone who wants to know the details.

I am actually enjoying it at the moment, though. I have no doubt that there will be Gwen-crap to come, but I like the emphasis on Jack so far.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Have you finished the book? If so, would you post a link to your review or to your DW page? Thanks much.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't put too much stock in it. JB has followed RTD's line on Gwen all the way along out of necessity. The bloke knows which side his bread is buttered on, and sometimes it means making distasteful concessions.

We know JB would like to do more Torchwood, and it's understandable that he's not yet ready to lay Captain Jack to rest, so what's he to do? Unless someone comes along with a pitch that makes the BBC decide Torchwood would be better off out of RTD's hands, JB is sadly going to hold to the "we all have to love Gwen because she is humanity personified" line. Excuse me while I go puke.

Really, I don't blame him for sticking to that mantra, and I don't think he was trying to give the die-hard fans a slap in the face. If there is anyone who appreciates the fans, it's JB. I just don't think he has much of a choice, unless he's prepared to sacrifice any future opportunities firstly to play Jack again, and secondly to get further TV roles in British sci fi. And I don't know anyone personally who has not had to make distasteful compromises somewhere along the line in order to retain job security.

Until the BBC realize that RTD is not the be all and end all of dramatic fiction, Torchwood will continue to be all about Super Trooper Bazooka Cooper.

Incidentally, has anyone read Exodus Code yet?


SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SOILERS


If not, you might just be interested to know that Gwen doesn't make an appearance until page 95, and when she does she's portrayed as being on the slippery slope to insanity - to the point where Jack has to shoot her and she ends up institutionalized in a mental ward.

I'm only halfway through and I don't know what Gwen-centric crap might be yet to come, but so far that alone has made it worth the purchase.

[dylantoms.livejournal.com]

Your comments at the end made me laugh out loud. Excellent!

I would not buy or read this book or any of the others post COE. They take time away from reading fanfic which gives me great writers and stories that I love.

JB comments about Gwen are ridiculous regardless of what he 'has' to say to tow the party line [which I mostly agree with], he wasn't asked about Gwen, why say anything?
JB's twitter brigade are embarrassingly sycophantic and I imagine that it colours his view of the world. To them there is only John Barrowman and if John Barrowman says something is so then it surely is. Sheesh.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I'm with you in this. There's being cautious about one's career - which I, owner of an endangered job, can surely understand - and then there's unnecessary ass-kissing to a nauseating extent. The two shouldn't be mixed up.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

*Sigh*

I do not get John Barrowman, I just do not.

I'm hoping it's the partyline thing. For his sake though? I don't know, none of it seems very authentic.

For example, if we assume that this is the party line thing, then he's just messing around and hardly cares for Jack's and Torchwood's overall quality.

If we assume that he really IS that much of Gwen-fan, then what the hell was he doing promoting Janto thing few years back?

If we assume that he's doing it because he believes that this is what the fans want, then he hasn't been paying attention to the fans AT ALL.

The only somewhat redeeming explanation that I can think off is that he's trying to lure RTD back into making Torchwood and tries to appeal to his love for Gwen, while at the same time, SPOILERS!!!!! letting her get shot and end up in a mental ward to appeal to the other fans.SPOILERS END!!!! But again, zombifying a dead series is not going to improve its quality.

Let's face it, Torchwood died after series 3 and Miracle Day was just a cheap ride for RTD to get into the States. Time to give it a rest and turn to the fanfics.

On another note, not sure if anyone here watches Who, but Chris Chibnall (writer of Day one, Cyberwoman, Countrycide, end of days, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Adrift, Fragments and Exit wounds) has written two episodes of the new season and I swear to God, all the good Torchwood season 1 and 2 stuff is in there (Right down to the big black SUV's and the pterodactyls). I say, if we're going to aim for a Torchwood reboot, let's put THAT guy in charge.

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

I just don't think he has much of a choice, unless he's prepared to sacrifice any future opportunities firstly to play Jack again, and secondly to get further TV roles in British sci fi.

I agree with that completely. I don't know how things work at the BBC, but I can understand him not wanting to put his career at risk.

Incidentally, thank you very much for the spoiler - it's made me feel a lot better about reading the book now :)

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

"SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SOILERS"
Just wondering if the last word there is a Freudian slip of some kind?!
Incidentally, I'm kinda liking the idea of Gwen getting shot and being put in a mental ward. I guess it's too much to hope she will stay there for the rest of the book/forever??????
You'll gather I'm in total agreement with all the comments here and over at the review!

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Freudian slip indeed!!

Yeah, I know it's too much to hope that she'll stay in the mental ward, but it leaves some lovely openings for fanfic later on, doesn't it?

[sarahjane6.livejournal.com]

Smack down, damn, I think we've been insulted.

[ragdollpixie.livejournal.com]

Okay... let me get this straight. If Gwen Cooper is supposed to be ME, so I'm a hypocrite, a cheat, a liar, a bitch and what else?


Oh wait, I'm kind of dumb too.

[msjaybee.livejournal.com]

I shall say this once and only once. I am not and never will be ANYTHING like Gwen 'the bitch' Cooper!

[sagrario martínez castro (from livejournal.com)]

I understand that then the only way to do more TW was with Gwen in it (while RTD was the writer) and JB knew it. Today is so different... They had said, officialy, that Ianto IS the heart of TW, and it´s clear the audience´s POV. JB is now with Arrow (and I love him in it), and other projects in the future. The same with Gareth and the rest of the cast.
Torchwood, the way that RTD showed us (I talk s.3 & 4)is over. It was over when Ianto wasn´t in the team and they gone to USA. That killed the show.
That they say to me Gwen is the audience´s POV is an insult. I hate this woman.