Coe

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

I just remembered the bit after the hub was blown up when gwen and ianto are on the phone talking and it completely proves us all right about her not caring about ianto she didn't even know he hadn't gone with them for Ice cream or that it gave him a headache really really ignorant

Comments

[bk_forever]

She didn't know he had a sister, brother-in-law, niece and nephew either, Jack had to tell if. If she and Ianto had been best buddies the way some writers try to make us believe, Ianto would have told her that himself. I still believe Ianto thought of her as a colleague he had to work with, not someone he would ever willingly socialise with. Gwen barely seemed to notice the people she worked with most of the time, unless she wanted something from them.

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

Very true and she if I remember right didn't mention tosh and Owen and seemed reasonably happy all I can say is this sound like the description of an attention whore or a bitch

[bk_forever]

Gwen's the centre of her own little world, so she assumes she's the centre of everyone else's world too. She can't see beyond her own wonderfulness. In the right hands, the character of Gwen could have been interesting - if she'd actually been a believable and competent police constable to start with. Sadly the writers were given a one-dimensional soap opera character to work with and must have been told not to change anything about her, so she didn't learn and grow the way the other characters did, even though she had far more screen time.

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

yep i totaly agree

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

I would even go so far and say in some scripts stuff was edited last minute to add more "Gwen factor". There are quite a few Tosh/Owen/Ianto centric episode with Gwen moments in them that are so random I doubt a mediocre writer would write stuff like that, certainly not a good one. My guess is that RTD read it and said: "Okay, but needs more Gwen."

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

I wonder if gwen had of been in it less and not using Rhys and fucking Owen while giving jack doe y eye would we have liked the show more he'll yh

[bk_forever]

I've long thought that RTD went through scripts saying 'Let Gwen do that instead of Owen and take these lines from Ianto and Tosh and give them to Gwen.' Half the things Gwen says or does would have made more sense if one of the other characters had said or done them. Like in the epidsode with the faeries where Gwen examines the dead paedophile and collects forensic evidenc; Owen should have been there doing that. Gwen was a rookie police constable who'd been with Torchwood for just a few weeks - there's no way she'd have been trained for any of that by the police, it's specialist work, and there hadn't been time since she joined Torchwood to learn more than the absolute basics.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

@badly knitted Perfect example for what I mean.

@twndwrawesome I wouldn't love the show more or less, well up until some point early on in CoE that is, but I would certainly have a lot less footage to fast forward through each and every time I watch. ;)

[bk_forever]

Fanfic writers should be in charge of writing Torchwood - everything would make a lot more sense, there would be fewer plotholes and Gwen would have to deal with the consequences of her actions - that's if she wasn't killed horribly first or fired and Retconned by Jack. It's not too late to save the show if the BBC would just see sense...

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

I think it's too late to save it, period. They've gone to far, even if the BBC changes mind it would need a huge promotion campaign to get the interest of all those people back who followed RTDs kind advice and went off to watch Supernatural (or other shows). Plus Torchwood has made itself a bad name among the casual viewers with low quality Miracle Day. It would be hard work to rebuild the show at this point, featuring kicking out RTD, getting rid of Gwen (if you read through comments on Miracle Day/TW future these days then you can't help but notice that many, many more people are fed off with her), the return to Cardiff and it's roots, the return of (at least) Ianto. A totally new concept back towards "monster of the week". A 180° turn around of Jack's character... the list is just way too long.

[bk_forever]

All good points, but with the right person behind it I still feel it could be resurrected - maybe as a series of V movies - there's still a lot of potential in the original idea. Of course, the set would need rebuilding, which would probably be too expensive. Maybe the BBC should just get the fans to write the official Torchwood novels and we could fix all RTDs mistakes in those, lol. I'm daydreaming, I know, I just hate to think that RTDs stupidity cost us a TV show with unlimited potential for entertainment.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Hm, the set, expensive, let's see. TBH my favorite idea for the reanimation of classic Torchwood is something like this:

*Ditch RTD, give the show to somebody with talent.
*Jack, thinking the Rift is closed etc, returns from some point in the future, to Cardiff for some reason.
*He finds out that not only is the Rift still open and throwing out stuff, but Torchwood is also still there.
*There's a bunch of new, >>charismatic<< characters working for it, just like the original ones. (I would love to see Naoko and Burn back, but somehow I doubt they will).
*Torchwood has a new base in the bay (something a bit cheaper to create then the wonderful but sadly lost forever Hub). It could be a small shop, a pub, or even a "really just a" tourist office.
*Gwen is nowhere to be seen, probably swanned off to the USA for good.
*There's a mysterious new leader of Torchwood 3, Jack never gets to meet in the first season.
*The viewers know that this person is Ianto, who is either a ghost now (if you want to tie in THotD) or has been not 100% human all along and because of that survived the 456.
*It's basically Day One all over again, only with Jack in Gwen's position now, thought they won't let him join up at first.
*Throw in all the Rift has to give, a few weevils and a visit from John Hart (who obviously knows more then Jack does).

I think something like that could work, esp. if the BBc really pulls their collective tails between their legs and advertises the whole thing with "returns home" and "Ianto is back". Remember how places like Torch_wood came alive when the radio plays were aired last summer, I think with the right strategy this could happen again. It's a bit COULD though.

[bk_forever]

Liking that idea, definitely! A smaller scale and less elaborate Hub would save money, maybe just have them using a warehouse with partitioning and state of the art security systems that aren't visible - forcefields for the cells or something. There are plenty of ideas out there for a Not-Completely-Human Ianto, and it certainly wouldn't bother Jack when he finally discovered who the mysterious boss is.

We can dream... after all, dreaming is free!

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

As long as it is something creative why not.

A small coffee shop (the starbucks ones not the dutch ones) would probably be my favorite idea, run by Rhiannon Davies. Ianto "left" her all his money and she put good use to it and did something in his "memory". And if you press a certain button behind the counter...

[bk_forever]

Oh yes! Hidden entrance to the new Hub! Classy =)

[tardisjournal.livejournal.com]

That was a real "WTF?!?" moment for me. It suggested that Ianto never really stopped being invisible to Gwen, even after all they'd been through together. :/

[littleatem.livejournal.com]

Agreed. She was an idiot who never learned a thing about her co-workers outside of the bedroom if she managed to get there with them (in her mind Jack was already there *shudders*).

Today at work I was discussing TW with one of my co-workers when a customer came up mid-conversation and asked what we were talking about. I told him it was about TW and how America ruined it with Miss Super Cooper. He looked at me and said without any other prompting "Well she was someone who needed to be killed off ages ago."

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

i like them already i havent got any one at schoolwho likes torchwood unfortunitly they dont know what they missing but i totaly agree with them i wish that gwen had come through the cog doors and ianto had some sort of power so he could see into the future and shots her on the spot that would have been the best thing id ever seen someone who is good at writting fics should do one like that not me though i can only do short ones that i can feel like the one i wrote about iantos thoughts after lisa died i know what its like to lose some one so i expanded on that but anything else i would and do fail at but its an idea if any one wants it

[bk_forever]

I wish that when she'd stumbled across that weevil in the hospital (because she was being nosy and wandered into a sealed off area), that it had torn her throat out instead of the poor caretaker's. He was Gwen's first victim, he would never have gone into that sealed off area if Gwen hadn't gone in first, so it's her fault he died, but she never showed any remorse over it.

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

Now compare how well Gwen does (or rather, doesn't) know her co-workers with her pretty much berating the rest of the team for not knowing what Suzie liked to do in her spare time...

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

all i can say if they directors were looking for a down to earth normal character they had one from the beging ianto gwen reminds me of a 3 year old how has just lost they dummy and talking about ianto a thought popped into my head my 5 year old cousin reminds me of ianto really polite and sometimes shy but smart (for a 5 year old) and can be great to hang out and play with (who ever instally thinks of jack and ianto having sex shame on you;)) but yeah if a 5 year old can act more grown up than gwen then well thats just sad more than sad pathetic she really needs to grow up and soon or else she may find me in her room when shes asleep with a knife .......... jokes id only do that if she was real and not just a character or would i ;)

[bk_forever]

For being one of the oldest characters (not including Jack, of course), she's the most immature. She's really childish, throwing tantrums when she doesn't get her own way, or acting like a giggly pre-teen gossiping about boys, yet we're expected to see her as a mature, responsible police constable - a job she's really incompetent at.

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

I think you speak for us all when you say thet

[bk_forever]

I'm preaching to the choir! We're here because of our shared loathing for Gwen Bloody Cooper, the most irritating and unnecessary character ever to grace a TV screeen. I really can't see why Torchwood the TV show or Torchwood the semi-secret alien hunting organisation would need her. It's not like she ever did anything that could be described as useful.

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

Actually that's not untirely true she ....... She ....... Ermmmmmm well she..............oh I know she is a good character to vent our angry at but on the show there isn't any need for her

[bk_forever]

LOL! So true! I knew she must be good for something!

She's good weevil bait too. Wonder what else she could be useful for....

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

As a warning add: Do not boil your goldfish?

I think what RTD never understood is that you can't force the audience to accept a character as their "heart and eyes", most of the times they'll chose somebody else then you planned on anyway.

And if they audience DOES fall for a character in your show then you should make the most out of it not declare war to your fandom.

[bk_forever]

Oh, but RTD doesn't need fans or fandom, he just wants casual viewers who don't care about the characters or the plot and are just happy with a lot of explosions and running around by some woman in tight clothes. *rolls eyess*

I don't believe a specific audience identification character is ever needed if the writers do their job properly. There should be no need for characters explaining everything that's going on and asking a lot of stupid questions. It just distracts from the show and slows things down. The audience should be free to choose who they like or dislike and who, if anyone, they identify with. For me it was Ianto and Tosh, I cared about them because I know how it feels to be left to do all the work without so much as a thankyou, and to be ignored or made fun of by the guy I had a crush on. There's nothing about Gwen that makes me feel anything but irritation and contempt for her. If RTD thinks she's the perfect woman, he really has no idea whatsoever about women. She embodies every quality I hate in any person.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, you don't need to label somebody as the "eyes" of the audience. Compare Gwen with BBC's John Watson. Both stumble into a whole new world. Gwen discovers Torchwood, John Sherlock and all to goes with that, the Yard, Mycroft and his government ties, the homeless network... and we follow them. But John quickly fits in and, though in some way he remains the eyes of the viewers, it never stands out as with Gwen. Maybe that's even one of the reasons why Gwen is so annoying, I'm a grown up person, I don't need to be told what I should see and even more HOW I should see it, I'm pretty much able to do that myself.

[bk_forever]

Exactly! It's up to the audience how they interpret what they see, we don't need someone trying to shove his own opinions down our throats by way of his 'super special, perfect woman who everyone must adore and listen to'.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Yes, but Sherlock is written by two people with real talent (ie able to write) who do not pre-guess their audience and who think all the fanfiction is a hoot (to the extent of actually reading some of it, now there's a thing) They do not demean their fans, either. Neither do they slavishly do as their fans dictate- they are writers you know, able to have ideas of their own and actually write stories?
In fact the only thing I have against either of them is that they seem to actually like RTD- but I guess no-one is perfect.....

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

But then they're all employed by the BBC, coworkers, and I have to ACT as if I like my coworkers as well, otherwise I would be in trouble with the boss of making the company looking bad, so who knows what they think about Crusty behind his back?

[twndwrawesome.livejournal.com]

I got 2 ideas dead and a punchbag they the only ways I like her

[bk_forever]

There should be Gwen-shaped punching bags in every gym, with her face staring out at people - it would be a great way to channel aggression! Sheer bliss!

She could also be used as a door stop or a draught excluder, but it would take quite a lot of duct tape to make sure she couldn't wriggle around too much!

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

She's good weevil bait too. Wonder what else she could be useful for..

The only thing about using her for Weevil bait, what did the Weevils ever do to deserve *that*!
Now maybe as an emetic for Weevils, that might work ;-)

[bk_forever]

Well, they'd see her, be so horrified they'd freeze and they'd welcome the bag over their head. Much easier!

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Flat Holm, that old fog horn out there isn't working anymore anyway, so leave her there to warn ships in the Bristol Channel in the fog with her shouting and screaming and bossing around.

Of course we have to relocate those poor Rift victims then but I'm pretty sure we'll find them a nice place somewhere.

[bk_forever]

Good one! She's loud enough the ships would easily hear her ranting and complaining! I'm sure Rhys would be grateful too, he could make a good life for himself once he's free of her mind-control!