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antigwenallies Mar. 26th, 2008 10:57 am)
love-jackianto.livejournal.com posting in antigwenallies Mar. 26th, 2008 10:57 am)Title: I don't dislike Gwen because of Jack/Ianto, I dislike Gwen because of Gwen.
Why is it that people assume just because I like Jack/Ianto that I don't like Gwen. There are plenty of non-Jack/Ianto reasons not to like Gwen.
Spoilers for Series 1, and Series 2 up to episode 11
She's written as a Mary-Sue
1. With all the times she been taken hostage, she should be died by now.
2. Every man (Owen, Andy etc.) is attracted to her.
3. Her job within Torchwood doesn't make any sense. Alien Profiler *rolls eyes*
4. She's second-in-command even though she has been with Torchwood the least amount of time and seems to have no leadership skills.
It could be argued that the other team members just let her think she was in charge. Everyone else had important jobs to do, and it kept her out of the way.
5. Unlike the rest of the team she has never lost someone she cares about.
She's never had to face the repercussions of her actions
6. Anyone remember Gwen/Owen in Series 1? The writers sure don't.
In 'Adift' she did have to face the repercussions, but I doubt she'll learn from it. She hasn't learned from any of her mistakes so far. How many people are going to have to die because of her?
She suppose to by the heart of the team, but she doesn't seem think about other people.
7. The who-was-your-last-snog game in CountryCide. Poor Tosh.
8. Exactly how is confessing her affair with Owen to Rhys and than retconning Rhys compassionate?
9. She got the DJ at her wedding killed; all because she wanted to have her wedding when she wanted it.
10. She's horrible to Rhys. She lied to him in Everything Changes, before she even joined Torchwood.
What does everyone else think?
AN: This was inspired by this poll at![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
torch_wood. Some People blame the fact that Gwen is leading (which character should die) because of Jack/Ianto shippers. I blame the fact that Gwen is just a horrible character.
Why is it that people assume just because I like Jack/Ianto that I don't like Gwen. There are plenty of non-Jack/Ianto reasons not to like Gwen.
Spoilers for Series 1, and Series 2 up to episode 11
She's written as a Mary-Sue
1. With all the times she been taken hostage, she should be died by now.
2. Every man (Owen, Andy etc.) is attracted to her.
3. Her job within Torchwood doesn't make any sense. Alien Profiler *rolls eyes*
4. She's second-in-command even though she has been with Torchwood the least amount of time and seems to have no leadership skills.
It could be argued that the other team members just let her think she was in charge. Everyone else had important jobs to do, and it kept her out of the way.
5. Unlike the rest of the team she has never lost someone she cares about.
She's never had to face the repercussions of her actions
6. Anyone remember Gwen/Owen in Series 1? The writers sure don't.
In 'Adift' she did have to face the repercussions, but I doubt she'll learn from it. She hasn't learned from any of her mistakes so far. How many people are going to have to die because of her?
She suppose to by the heart of the team, but she doesn't seem think about other people.
7. The who-was-your-last-snog game in CountryCide. Poor Tosh.
8. Exactly how is confessing her affair with Owen to Rhys and than retconning Rhys compassionate?
9. She got the DJ at her wedding killed; all because she wanted to have her wedding when she wanted it.
10. She's horrible to Rhys. She lied to him in Everything Changes, before she even joined Torchwood.
What does everyone else think?
AN: This was inspired by this poll at
torch_wood. Some People blame the fact that Gwen is leading (which character should die) because of Jack/Ianto shippers. I blame the fact that Gwen is just a horrible character.Tags:
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From:
no subject
Most has nothing to do with Jack/Ianto and as this was before this season aired I could add more besides I never did finish this rant.
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I really irritates me that some people seem to think that the Gwen-hate is *just* because of Jack/Ianto, and not because she's a horrible character.
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I could buy the flaws argument if she actually grew as character because of them, but she still makes the same poor decisions she did in Series 1.
'I just can't understand how Gwen fans and Gwackers can see such a person as 'their hero'.'
I don't understand it either.
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but i can't stand how she's so ~in love~ with jack when he's with someone else, and she's married.
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(even on the day of her wedding) I don't understand.
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As for people thinking Gwen hate and Jack/Ianto love are synonymous... Please. I hated Gwen from the first FRAME of the first episode, because I could tell right away that the inept (and god is she inept), nosey cop was going to be the ~star~ of the show, and it sickened me. Has nothing to do with suits and stopwatches.
I WILL say that in a couple of episodes this season Gwen has come off as slightly more sympathetic, but there's always that overriding element of "I love you, Jack!" that RTD (I imagine, anyway) insists his writers sprinkle throughout every episode. (That scene in the wedding episode with doppelganger Jack was TOO MUCH. I mean really. Kudos to John though for hamming it up and making it blatantly obvious that it was a pod!Jack. God what a twat she is.)
And the way she treats Rhys is deplorable. The "heart" of the show shouldn't be cheating on her boyfriend, lying to him, drugging him, and then smacking him when he's, you know, UPSET ABOUT IT.
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I don't get it either. A few people who like Gwen have said that all of the horrible things she does make her flawed; I could understand that except she never seems to learn and/or change because of them.
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From:
Gwen
I admit I was somewhat irritated with Gwen from the very first moment I saw her. I wanted to see what the Torchwood team were doing in Episode One of Season one and instead I was following Gwen about. Then Jack made her a member of the Team and I couldn't understand what use she would be.
In the second episode she caused the death of a number of people because, although Jack told her to watch and do nothing, she disobeyed him. She did not learn from this mistake.
Then she started having an affair with Owen, often while she was pretending to be working on something, despite living with Rhys. Then, of course, there was her disgusting behavior in the last two episodes of season one.
Now we have to endure her doing her Gwen showing emotion thing with Jack, which consists of her opening her eyes wider and wider until, in the words of my 9 year old daughter "I don't like it when she does that. I'm afraid her eyes are going to fall out." Er-it worries me too.
Then there are the unpleasant things she says and does -she's marrying Rhys because no-one else will have her--she's happy to go on with a wedding after someone is killed and to go off on a honeymoon after all the guests have been retconned.
She is always disobeying and arguing with Jack. She has no skills and even had to be taught to shoot when she joined the team. Police Constables, according to a friend of mine who is a Sergeant, are not trained to be expert profilers. Anyhow, how do you profile an alien?
I could go on but I wont. I thought it was funny though, that when someone wanted to know why folk liked Gwen, many of them were reduced to muttering that she had great hair.
So, she's useless, she's a liar, she goes her own way regardless of the consequences, she has no skills and no training---oh, but SHE HAS GREAT HAIR. Units dealing with alien invasions really need useless members with great hair. After all, if you are in a fix you can always shake your fantastic hair at them.
RTD likes the character evidently. Personally, I dislike RTD. I think he is having a laugh with the viewing public. I still remember him saying why he put the bit in Dr Who about Jack being The Face of Boe. He was asked in an interview about it and he said he had put it in to upset the fans, especially those on-line. He said he hoped everyone would be discussing it for ages and it would give him a great laugh. He put it in AS A JOKE. He said that. He must have been ecstatic as it was discussed seriously EVERYWHERE, and all the time it was just an RTD practical joke.
I think Gwen and her rotten behavior are another version of RTD having one of his jokes.-- I'll write a really foul character and insist everyone loves her madly. That'll be fun. Unfortunately, he really understands the viewing public because some people do like her. But I STILL don't know why and when I have asked on comms why folk like her they just spout RTD rubbish like robots.---She's the heart of the team--everyone loves her--she's a normal person like us {HUH?}--she makes mistakes like we do {er--I can't remember the last time I caused the death of someone--maybe I had a previous life as an homicidal maniac}.
Going off-line now after all this--baby needs feeding. Now that's normality!
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Re: Gwen
From:
Re: Gwen
I will defend Gwen on the shooting issue. Police Constables in the UK don't carry guns. Gwen would have had no reason to learn how to shoot a gun unless she was joining one of the special armed units (that's why on UK shows when you see policemen with guns on a raid, they'll always yell 'armed police' rather than just 'police')
So it's not Gwen's fault she had to be trained to shoot.
Everything else of course is her fault.
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Re: Gwen
Thanks for mentioning the guns thing though as I forgot that UK Police don't all have guns. I ought to have remembered but I still think Gwen should have learned to use a gun before she joined Torchwood.
How did she think she was going to deal with an alien invasion?
From:
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Owen/Gwen- seemed easy for Gwen to cheat. How do we know this was her 1st affair?
She suppose to by the heart of the team, but she doesn't seem think about other people. I have to disagree with that. Gwen is great at caring about strangers. It's the people that Gwen knows and should care about that she doesn't think about.
From:
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Poor Rhys. You know it's only a matter of time before she cheats on him with Andy, because she needs someone to 'talk' to.
'She suppose to by the heart of the team, but she doesn't seem think about other people. I have to disagree with that. Gwen is great at caring about strangers. It's the people that Gwen knows and should care about that she doesn't think about.'
Good point. this is why I love discussing characters, people point out things you miss.
From:
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Oh i've been saying all along that if Gwen hadn't joined Torchwood, then sooner or later she'd have had a bad day at work and shagged Andy.
Have you seen the deleted scenes from S1? For Countrycide there's a scene where Gwen is sitting with Rhys in their flat, he says something along the lines of how he knows she can't talk about what she does at Torchwood, but he's there for her, and the first thing Gwen does is pretend that she's got a text message/phone call calling her back in to work.