Gwens US days seem to be over...

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Tweeted yesterday by Steven De Knight (from Starz, I think he produced Spartacus)

Steven DeKnight (@stevendeknight)
23/11/11 23:43
Sadly Torchwood has been torched. RT @DerfelMacklin @stevendeknight How about Torchwood? :)

He later tweeted that he's not sure, but to me that just seems like "ups I said something that wasn't through press release yet.

Comments

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Wow, just, wow. I suppose we saw this coming...Still though.


So people, place your bets. Is torchwood finally going to rest in peace? Will we never have to suffer Gwen's face on our screens again? Or will they find another way? Has RTD finally jumped ship? Is there anyone still willing to produce it?

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Or just the shark?
Or maybe the shark will eat him...
Or....oh, forget it.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

The shark would get indigestion. Don't be mean to the poor little sharkies.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

I hope it can return to it's roots, I hope they'll do the clever thing for once and revive the old team somehow (at least the post Exit Wounds one, though I would love to see Tosh and Owen again too). But I doubt that the BBC will take a gamble with it as it stands right now in days of short money.

Maybe there will be at least a few new books and audio plays set within the "real" Torchwood universe.

I doubt TW will get another chance on the US market, Starz is already a pretty "low quality" channel and only after a fast dollar, no way a big network will buy low quality stuff like Miracle Crap and the ones like Starz will shy away from the financial risk.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

I'm not even sure if the actors would be willing to go back to Torchwood...I mean sure, EM and JB probably would and perhaps GDL (Though he seems to be running a good deal with syfy)but NM and BG probably have different things going on right now.

Otherwise, that'd be cool. I think the books are most likely and perhaps some of those audio-plays.

The beeb pretty much cut them loose in the first place, they're not likely to pick it back up again. I wonder if JB's I'm-not-going-to-be-on-Who announcement is legit, or if he's lying through his teeth again.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

I thought JB was going to be on the anniversary season. Did I miss something?

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

There was this newsarticle couple of weeks back where he said this:

"Everybody keeps asking me and if I'm offered I would love to," says Barrowman. "I think it would be great. There is no plan to do that. No one has come forward. I don't think it'll happen. I'm always open for it, but who knows?"

http:*//blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2011/10/john-barrowman-no-plans-for-re*.html

Just remove the two ** after the Http and before the html, for the link

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Well tbh the only interesting Jack storyline I could see would be Jack meets River.

[jo02]

Now is the time to start the campaign to the BBC to get Torchwood back to Cardiff ..........

And Ianto back to Torchwood.
.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Well at least I can use my nice icon for CJ if its true. Honestly, I can't wait to hear what JB has to say about MD in his next book.

And didn't Eve buy a home in LA? That would really suck because I don't think there's a huge market for her in the US.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Not sure if JB hasn't bought a home too. I remember him saying that he was planning to live 6 months in the UK and 6 months in the USA a while back, but then back then he also said they would shoot 7 seasons of Torchwood over then. So maybe someone woke him up in time and told him that he should wait a bit before moving his stuff across the Atlantic.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

JB buys property everywhere- it is a pretty safe and sensible thing to do. Never anything over expensive. Whatever happens to any economy, people will always need houses. Anyway, if you had the money, be honest, who would not want a house in LA??
EM. not so sure it was a wise investment. she isn't going to find work (do not jump on me Mods I am not knocking I am being realistic)and I am not sure she has the sort of money that can cope with that sort of layout. Remember , TW is/was not JB's only string to his bow....

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

And then there's always Scotts business, I agree buying houses (maybe to renovate and re-sell them later, makes sense for JB.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

Won't be sorry if no more Torchwood is forthcoming - knowing full well that RTD won't allow a Torchwood series to happen without his precious Gwenni-poo in the spotlight.

However, I do hope to see Captain Jack on DW again. I live in hope of seeing him on-screen with the 11th Doctor.

As for the bit about JB "lying through his teeth" - think about it. How often has he been forced into a corner, and left with no option but to lie because of idiotic secrecy clauses placed on him by RTD and the BBC? Frankly, this business of treating upcoming TV show plots like an MI-5 plan is beyond stupid.
Knowing how much he values honesty, it must be galling for him to have to lie just to keep some half-arsed, flimsy plot secret.

I also have some hope that perhaps once RTD bows out, someone with actualy writing skills might come forward and work with the BBC to write a new Torchwood series that is set well into the future. That way, it could account for any ageing on JB's part, and it would rule out any chance of Stupor Cooper being included. We could also potentially have GDL back, playing a character who is an indirect descendant of Ianto, and who coincidentally looks exactly like the delectable Mr Jones...

Mm, now my brain has wandered. I have writing to do....

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Whether he hates lying or not, he's done it one to many times for me to trust him on his word with these things.

On another note, I reckon Steven Moffat 'made' himself a new Jack in River Song, seeing how much the two characters are alike in theory. I'd say the chances are slim to none that we'll ever get to see 11 and Jack in action together.

[antopazas.livejournal.com]

Do you find Jack and River really that similar? I can see some shared traits, like being flirty and rather forward, but otherwise...

How do you compare them?

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

I say in theory, because both actors put on a different show and, no matter how feministic we are, making the role feminine changes our perspective of the character. But still:

-Both are more experienced than the average companion
-Both have an aspect that comes from the TARDIS and makes them more than the average human.
- Both are, as you said, flirty and forward
- Both have lived non-linear timelines
- Both have a tendiency of going their own way and then coming back to the TARDIS in their own time
- Both have a military like profession
- Both are known to use vortex manipulators and sonic blasters
- Both represent a rogueish kind of good to balance out the Doctor
- Both lost their family at an early age

These are just the first ones that spring to mind. You can interchange the two in almost every scene they have and keep the plot and even dialogue roughly the same. The only differences are that River is almost the same species as the Doc and the heaps upon heaps of unadressed trauma that Jack accumulated since he got abandoned. Which was mostly RTDs work. Can't imagine the moff wants to deal with that... Not while he has his own plots to run.

So either Jack comes back to Who completely whitewashed from 4 seasons of Torchwood, or he doesn't come back at all. I'm not sure what I like better...

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

The only other chance would be a pre-CoE Jack in the DW special. Hm, not sure myself. Part of me wants Jack to get something a bit more like a happy ending then he got in both DW and TW, but then there's a huge part of me that thinks it would feel wrong to have him there. I almost quit DW before 11 and Amy came around, because the last 10th Doctor was..well not something I enjoyed. I'm simply not sure if I want Jack running around in a show I'm still looking forward too, I fear it would make me like it less. Shrugs.

[antopazas.livejournal.com]

Ah, i see what you mean. Thank you! I have obviously not paid enough attention, maybe it's because I'm not very fond of River.

I think I would like seeing Jack in Doctor Who, even after all the changes his character has suffered during the Torchwood series. Maybe because I'm a hopeless believer when it comes to the 11th Doctor, and I can see him healing the emotional damage that has been done to Jack.
But I have to agree with you, Moffat is probably only going to deal with this mess if he has an idea for a script that absolutely demands Jacks presence.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

There's a much easier way to have the real Ianto back- as a ghost. The Rift isn't closed (TW will use it in about 50 years to send Frida from the radio play Asylum to "our" time), what if ghost!Ianto only got rifted to the other end of the universe? Might take some timeto get back from there ,*cough* enough for supercooper do die of very old age*cough* . Plus, if he's already dead, yet still around, it makes him more or less immortal as well, right? Tada, happy ending for Janto. And Gwennie is sitting up there on the cloud she clearly deserves fuming and wondering why it is so hot in heaven and she's holding a pitchfork instead of a harp....

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Or even a direct descendant of Ianto. He kept secrets well, after all......

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

I always thought it was rather premature for JB to say he was happy to do 7 seasons of Torchwood {he seemed to think he would be doing them} when this one hadn't even been shown on TV yet. His calendar for next year seems to be totally empty as a result, as presumably he was leaving the first few months empty for Torchwood.

Eve buying a home in Hollywood seems to have been a case of typical delusion brought about directly by RTD. He kept telling her she was great and fantastic and who can resist that?

I watched a little bit of Miracle Crap and it was just that, crap. Obviously other folk thought so too. Aron told us that no-one he knew was watching it. [Dan's brother, he lives in new York.} He's a doctor and he knows an hell of a lot of people and he told Dan the medical aspects of the story were such utter rubbish he had no words bad enough to describe them.
Even allowing that it was meant to be Scifi it was rot and everyone he mentioned it to agreed.

This program was actually ruined by RTD. Just reading Jane Esperson's weird comments about episodes she was supposed to have written was odd enough for me. She appears to have not known what was happening or why!

RTD is happily working on a program called "Cucumber" and the less said about that title the better. Anyhow, the apparent death of Torchwood has prompted me to start working on "Jack Harkness's Schooldays" again. I have already written a scene in which Gwen has a massive nosebleed and ruins a tray of Boghaven toffee.

{Apologies for self advert}.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

The whole - 'we have a seven year contract with Starz' was laughable. No one in Hollywood has that kind of contract, NO ONE. Not since the 1940s anyway. So that was always obviously wishful thinking.

And I totally agree that JB is a habitual liar about these things. He'll say anything to hype something he's in, way beyond just the usual 'its really good.' Remember, he was the one who said that we would see the relationship between Jack & Ianto grow, not RTD. RTD said nothing about 7 year contracts. Though he did say he had one more story for Gwen.

And I almost forgot, JB was the one who implied that CJ would be on the anniversary season. As someone else pointed out - River Song is Jack. The more I've looked at this situation, the more I think that John B has been responsible for a lot of the crap that went down in series 3 and 4.

As for Eve, she fell victim to believing Rusty. And I think that if he could, RTD would do another show for her. I doubt he'll get the chance. He saw the writing on the wall (pun intended) and bailed leaving his stars to fend for themselves.

Honestly, if I never have to see the Gwen Cooper character again, I won't cry any tears. I'm just sorry that MD seems to have sucked the life out of fanfic for TW.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

He saw the writing on the wall (pun intended)

I would hope so, since he was the one taking the scripts and re-writing them into the toilet...At least, I hope he was the one writing them into the toilet. I'd hate to think what he changed in them actually made them *better*. Now that would be scarey.

Honestly, if I never have to see the Gwen Cooper character again, I won't cry any tears. I'm just sorry that MD seems to have sucked the life out of fanfic for TW.

I'm right with you there. It's really sad, what MD took out of fandom.


And I almost forgot, JB was the one who implied that CJ would be on the anniversary season.

Was he? I hadn't remembered that (and now take most of what JB says with a large grain of salt anyway). Thank goodness I'd learned to do that *before* MD. (Wish I had before COE.)

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

When you look at CoE, which kind of split the whole fandom at least the fandom was still alive afterward. There a tons of CoE fix it fanfictions out there, there's the SIJ campaign, there's the shrine in Cardiff which still looks very impressive, there was a least, even though sometimes heated, discussion on boards like torch_wood. I posted that Gareth and his wife are expecting their first child in May over there 2 days ago with close to no reaction, and I doubt that's because people don't care, that's because nobody is there anymore. The only time a saw this place come alive in almost a year was when the Lost Files aired. I think with the right choices after CoE Torchwood could have been saved but Miracle Crap destroyed it.

[slns7552.livejournal.com]

I don't know about JB but Julie Gardner said the relationship of Ianto and Jack would grow and we would be happy with it in COE at some con. RTD, at the same time, semiconfirmed what she said.

Eve may have believed RTD but she also believed her own ego. He did not put all those words in her mouth, such as Jack and Ianto were comic relief and Gwen was the real star of the show.

I really never cared for RTD's reincarnation of Doctor Who from the very beginning. I could care less if Jack returns or not. Jack's outrageous and outgoing behavior grates on my nerves after awhile.

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

There's some interesting talk on a Digital Spy forum about how TW could be brought back (and interesting suggestions- I don't comment there as there's sometimes a lack of tolerance to an anti MD or Gwen view. And there's also some speculation about whether it is the end of the road for TW. I'm inclined to believe it is; I sat through the whole 10 hrs of MD and wasted valuable time there!!
Anyone who recommisions that has been on psychedelics... In fact, I'm pretty sure that not even a handful of hallucinogens could have made it enjoyable entertainment for me, and I don't seem to be alone amongst those who sat through the whole thing, just hoping it might improve just a little bit... or that Cooper would meet a grisly end in some way, in my case!

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

I used to post on Digital Spy but I made the mistake of saying that some detective thing {I can't even recall what one it was} was boring and was promptly called, by several people, anti-British. When I pointed out that as a family we had chosen to live here and become British citizens I was then accused of sponging off the state.

I have avoided the site ever since so I didn't read about what they thought of Miracle Crap, although someone told me a bit of what they were saying.

Personally I think RTD killed Torchwood on purpose as he said someplace he was tired of writing it. Or did I dream that?

[jsks.livejournal.com]

i stopped posting because the rtd fanboys and die hard gwennies would go off on a tear no matter what you had posted (they would go on about ianto fangirls even if you hadn't mentioned ianto) so for my sanity i stopped going there.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Champagne anyone? *g*

Now that Miracle Crap and the Gwenninator are duly and deservedly off the picture, I might feel the inspiration to write some more fanfic again.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

I know we have been accused of being paranoid, and of having delusions of grandeur (both by RTD) but I am absolutely CERTAIN RTD killed off Ianto because he was too popular- in all the polls I have ever seen he has come top or second and Gwen has come last - often after Adam and always after Andy- Gwen's popularity actually went down after CoE and is still down. I am pretty sure MD was RTD's way of throwing his toys, broken, out of the pram.
So much for his loyalty to his actors- this was pretty much EM's only chance, let's face it, and now she, a small child and a new husband are all pretty much dumped as RTD goes running off like a fat kid in a candy store (or sweet shop, insert as required) in search of something sweeter.
I wonder who the next lucky lady will be and how long it will take before they all start talking to one another?
I am pretty sure Freema Aygeman would have a thing or two to add!

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Well I know not much about his new show cucumber (or if it will ever go in production at all) but I think RTD likes EM so much, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets her a role in that one.

RTD said some time between CoE and MD that he needs viewers not fans, I guess that wraps it all up. The fans chose to like the wrong people (Tosh, Owen, Ianto) and disliked his favorite, his star, his muse Gwen (Eve), and instead of pausing between S1 and S2 to think why and maybe to make her a more likable character in the next season, RTD never doubted his own brilliance (as usual) and Gwen got even more. Now, she was okay in CoE, apart from the whole straight couple gets their happy ending including kid and all while one of the "gays" dies and the other one is turned into a murderer and broken. But Miracle Day topped it all. Esp, the "I watched my co-workers die and I liked it" line. I have been wondering for a while if that was the writers finally coming to their senses and realizing who Gwen really is... tbh I doubt it. That was, like so much in MD, RTD saing "f**k you" to the old fans. It was him saying: Look what you loved is gone and Gwen is still there and gets away even with a line like that and those shine new viewers will STILL love her and Miracle Day will win every single price to win out there and... Only, well, the higher they fly....

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

I agree, that line -the whole speech- was horrible. It really smacks of just another way for RTD to rub our faces in it. Gwen never survived for her merits or because she was smarter or "better" but only because she is the designed Mary Sue. So to make her utter that speech while still insisting in claiming her the leading human heart of the show was just another sign of how spiteful towards the old fans RTD is.

[jsks.livejournal.com]

sigh, yet the rusty fanboys will blame the non kool-aid drinking fans for the show's death because we cannot handle true 'serious' drama.

[sarahjane6.livejournal.com]

No surprise and my opinion it's for the best. The series was going down hill like on skis with a dense forest ahead.

I can only wish all the actors the best for future ventures.

At least we'll always have series one and two.

I'm not surprised

[iloveianto.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised for the end utter failure of Miracle Day. I personally watched only the first episode and stopped there. I was angry at the deaths of Tosh and Owen, and livid after the death of Ianto, and after all the accusations to anti-gwen fans I admit to feel a certain smug satisfaction for the failure of season 4. RTD should have listened to the fans and the results of the polls. He shouldn't have eliminated all tha favourite characters of the show and reduced Jack to a person that I don't like on the show. Where is the power of Torchwood, "outside of the government", I was astounded about the events of COE with the attack of the government at the hub, but maybe with the death of Torchwood One all the power was lost. Jack was too preoccupied daydreaming of the Doctor to do anything.
I'm only sorry that fanfiction about TW aren't written so much anymore, maybe the only way to see good TW stories is to read fanfiction, a lot of writers are a lot more talented than RTD in Miracle Crap.

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[jennifer (from livejournal.com)]

Gwen irritates. I'd miss Torchwood. It is fun. Her character, not so fun.