Gwen and Retcon

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

I've recently come across several stories, from different authors, where Gwen was immune to Retcon, or at least resistant to it in small doses. Those authors seem to base this on Gwen managing to overcome the Retcon Jack gave her in "Everything Changes".

But Suzie explicitly stated that sometimes the suppressed memories can be triggered by things like a specific image. Given this fact about Retcon, I don't understand how Gwen managing to overcome it once means she is somehow a special case. After all, she didn't have just one trigger, she had a whole line of them: her colleague mentioning Gwen's request to search for a Captain Jack Harkness, the image of the knife, the brochure with the image of the Millennium Centre and the word "Remember!" she had written on it, seeing the Plass with the fountain, and then finally seeing Suzie and the things Suzie said. Gwen seemed to have a strong feeling of deja vu with the knife and an image in her mind of it back on Suzie's desk, but that alone wasn't enough for her to actually remember the events of the preceding evening.

So, what do you think, is Gwen somehow less susceptible to Retcon, and if so, why?

Comments

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, that's a tiny niggling pet peeve in fic: Gwen being a special exception from Retcon. But then, I've seen it suggested as one explanation for why Jack didn't fire her immediately and Retcon her again (many times over) for her idiot behavour at work: because, maybe, she actually is special (ewww!=D) case immune to Retcon, so once in TW, they were stuck with her.

I don't think so, though, personally. I kind of figured from the show that Retcon isn't infallible and that there was nothing particularly outstanding about Gwen breaking it; just showed how persistent she was. (And the reason they didn't retcon her back into infancy later, for good, - that is just one of those life's mysteries. IDK her BFF RTD?)

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

By the by. It always seemed utterly ridiculous to me that Gwen went to jot a super-important extra-urgent secret memo for herself on the computer. Who does that? Did she have no paper in the house?

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

there was nothing particularly outstanding about Gwen breaking it; just showed how persistent she was.

I don't think Retcon would be a good tool for Torchwood if the persistence/force of will/determination not to forget of the recipient had any influence on its effectiveness.

Gwen just got lucky in that she had several triggers, and one of them (the brochure of the Millennium Centre) led her to even more triggers (the Plass and the confrontation with Suzie) that finally caused her to remember.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Yeah BUT... if Gwen IS immune to Retcon, how comes Adam is no longer around??? (Or is he and everything past Adam was just happening in Gwen-I-enjoy-my-coworkers-suffer-and-die Coopers head? Say yes... pleeeeease!)

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

She's nothing special and she's not immune to Retcon: she took it to forget Adam and it worked.

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I actually had someone argue that it only worked because Gwen wanted to forget Adam, but I don't believe that. Also, when Jack threatened to retcon both her and Rhys at the end of "Meat", nobody seemed to think that it wouldn't work if he were to do it.

[hydrojen90.livejournal.com]

I think the important words here are 'special case'.

[slns7552.livejournal.com]

I think you mean a "special headcase". She didn't resist it in Adam. I think not only did she have several triggers in Everything Changes but Jack screwed up the dosage.

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

True. Gwen is such a special snowflake that the rules of Torchwood don't apply to her, so why should the rules of the functioning of Retcon be different.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I keep saying that the reason was that Jack screwed up the dosage of Retcon, instead of leaving it to someone who actually knew how to do it (like Suzie), but nobody listens to me.

Yours truly,
Ianto Jones,
Torchwood archivist

[jo02]

*lulz*

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

That actually tends to be my explanation for it as well :)

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

This was written by RTD. Surely you all don't expect it to be consistent and make sense?

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Is there an 'anti-RTD allies' community? =)

...The man wrote 'Casanova'. I really liked Casanova. I don't know even what to think. =( And I've heard people praise his QaF and - what was it? - 'Second Coming'. Maybe it's... sci-fi because it requires action-driven plot?.. maybe fame got to his head... [/probably rhetorical, and off-topic]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Surely you all don't expect it to be consistent and make sense?

Well, you DO have to give him points for being so consistently inconsistent. He's VERY good at that. :(

[sandysan2013.livejournal.com]

There is no evidence in canon that Gwen was immune to retcon.

[jo02]

I'm inclined to think it just makes Gwen more like the cockroaches she reminds me of - neither retcon nor an atomic bomb will make her go away.

I know RTD meant it to make us think she was extra special; he thinks adorable superstar, I think annoying, impossible-to-get-rid-of pest.

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

You know, I think comparing Gwen with cockroaches is an insult to the poor animals. They are at least competent and efficient in what they do. :-)

[mscatmoon.livejournal.com]

I just really hate having to believe that Jack was so stupid and incompetant as to want to recruit someone like Gwen. I mean come on... Tosh the genius, Owen the annoying but brillant doctor who really cares too much. Ianto who is indespensible and can do anything. Suzie wiz with the weapons (too good). Then... Gwen?? Yes because every team needs one member who's totally useless?

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, this. If Jack absolutely wanted to hire someone from the police force to bring some common sense into Torchwood, or work as liaison with local authorities, or whatever, he should have gone with PC Andy or Kathy Swanson.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Those authors seem to base this on Gwen managing to overcome the Retcon Jack gave her in "Everything Changes".

Stories like this make me go grrrrr, and break out in pet-peeve hives. In "Everything Changes" she has about 18 different triggers to make her break through the retcon. There's nothing in the show (at least S1 & S2) that says she's got an immunity - or even a partial immunity - to retcon.

ETA: Edited because correct spelling makes the words make sense.

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

I'm glad it's not just me who goes grrrr at stuff like this.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Put the whole Retcon thing how you like it, it will always be a plot hole.

Version 1: Gwen IS immune (or less affected by) to Retcon- Then why did it work when they "killed" Adam with it?

Version 2: Memory can be triggered by something big enough... then why wasn't the death of Tosh and Owen, the Hub getting blown up, enough to trigger Ianto's memory of the 456 and his own death? (RTD said the books ARE canon, which makes Shrouded canon too).

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

RTD said

Surely you don't mean that as a legitimate argument! =)

I don't count that as a plot hole. It works out in the series: Jack screwed up the dose, and Gwen got lucky (doesn't she always?) stumbling upon a whole bunch of strong triggers. It's never suggested she's immune in the show, from what I recall.

It's mostly fanon, I think, which mixes things up. Stuff like this happens in fanon. Like that non-existent but very convenient couch in Jack's office? =)

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Jack invented the stuff. It was important to the team that Gwen be taken out of the picture. She was just an annoying little side effect.
And he screwed up the dosage Really? That is the best you can do? So, OK, why was this NEVER said??
I never thought there was a couch in Jacks office. Down in the Hub, under the TW sign, as we saw in DW, yes, there is a sort of couch, that it would be very easy to morph into a proper sofa, but in Jack's office? Nope, never thought that.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Jack invented the stuff.

Did he? I don't recall the show ever explicitly stating the drug's origin, but I may be wrong.

As for his screwing up the dosage - well, your guess is as good as mine as to how effective Retcon really is and how hard or easy it was for Gwen to break it.

I know there's no office couch on screen. But it's often there in fanfic. =) For obvious purposes. =)

[antopazas.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't believe that she is less affected by Retcon than other people, the show hasn't given us any reason to believe otherwise.

Like you already stated, Suzie mentions that it's not 100% sure to work if the person encounters a specific trigger.

Plus, we learn in the episode in which Suzie is resurrected, that high doses of retcon can affect a persons mental stability (poor guy in her self-help group), and NONE of the characters knew that. In my opinion this indicates that the drug has not been fully investigated, and can act in an unforeseen way.
As a consequence, it's likely that the retcon failed because of something Jack did not know to take into account, not because Gwen is different.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

That would make sense. Could be anything even some medication they gave Gwen after the got one over her head in that bar.