So, who lusted after whom?

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

After a long time, I got a review to "Atlantis Café" on FF.Net; it was mostly positive, but the reviewer mentoned that I portrayed Gwen unfairly, because it was Jack who lusted afer her and not the other way round.

So, I thought it would be worth a dispute: who lusted after whom? I must admit that (just like the reviewer), I'm not a devoted Jack fan (that's what "Atlantis Café" is about, basically), but... well, what do you think?

Comments

[pitac89.livejournal.com]

Jack may have lusted after Gwen, but Gwen wasn't some shrinking violet about it. She lusted after him too, pretty obviously, and came close to actively pursuing a few time before getting shot down.

[amythest-n-ice.livejournal.com]

Jack flirts with anything with a higher brain-function, it's as natural to him as breathing. He backed off and made it clear he was taken when she started thinking it was more than it was, playing 'naked hide and seek' with Ianto where anyone could walk in on them couldn't get much more pointed as a declaration of disinterest in the harpy.

[littleatem.livejournal.com]

Definitely agree. Jack may have flirted, but he flirts with everyone (even when they took his balls in season4) but she was the one to believe that there was more to it.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah. Jack flirts lightheartedly, just because he's fun that way, whereas Gwen flirted back with clear intent. Harsh emotional manipulation even, on occasion.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize Gwen had a higher brain function!!!!

[milady-dragon.livejournal.com]

I think at first it was mutual lusting, but Jack was never going to do anything about it. Gwen, on the other hand...she made it perfectly clear she'd do him if he looked at her the right way.

But then, why would he want Gwen when he could have Ianto? It's like the difference between ground beef and New York strip steak! It was no contest.

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

For the first three episodes they weren't exactly hinting more, screaming it through megaphones that something might happen. But along came Cyberwoman where jack kissed Ianto and Gwen kissed Owen and that thankfully was the end of that.
....

But not for long! (Horrible Hisotires reference)

Gwen got sick of Owen and turned her focus back to jack who at this poitn was more focused on Ianto and a certain stopwatch. Jack's attention was now on Ianto and not on gwen so she upped the ante but ended up making herself look like an idiot and a tramp. Remember everyone she had a boyfriend/fiance/mindless-drone whose more commonly known as Rhys.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Poor Rhys! It's not his fault that he got brainwashed by the Rustoid.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Same as poor PC/PS Andy, Eugene Jones, arguably Owen for a while, Jack in one way or another...

Oddly, Ianto escaped that fate, though some people would argue he liked her as a friend.

Oddly, Shapiro is actually anti-Gwen. Was RTD out of town the day this character was written?

[sandysan2013.livejournal.com]

I agree with you up until you say that Gwen got tired of Owen. It was the other way around. Owen was already in love/heat with Dianne and Gwen knew nothing about it until they went together to inform someone that a relative was dead. I'm kicking myself for not being able to remember the episode, but it was after Out of Time. If you recall, Gwen comes back to the car and gets no sympathy from Owen when she says how much she hates delivering the bad news and thought she's finished w/that when she left the police force. She's so angry at Owen's lack of support she asks him, and this is NOT an exact quote despite the marks, "...why are we still doing this?" She thinks they're still having the affair. Owen says they should stop right now because he's (usual disclaimer about exactness, "...I'm tired of your fuck tricks anyway." Gwen gets angry and Owen either gets out or she puts him out and he has to walk back to the Hub. At the Hub she complains to Tosh about what a bastard is being and Tosh tells her that Owen had a fling w/Dianne. Dianne had already left so its the episode after Out Of Time. If you play back that scene you may notice that Owen's affair w/Dianne is news to Gwen. Self-absorbed as always, she didn't even notice that he'd moved on. All of which is to say, Owen dumped Gwen. So, instead of lusting after Jack part-time and having sex w/Owen part-time, Rhys had the advantage of only having to share her w/her lust for Jack. With owen out of the picture, Gwen was able to devote a bit more time and energy to Rhys, though I don't think he had a full attention while Jack was on Earth.

I think Jack always had a "thing" for Gwen, but i think he decided early on, for whatever reason, that he would not pursue it. I don't think he ever will and from what I've heard about MD, there is still "love" and friendship between them (the kind you're left w/when one friend betrays and never really trusts the other and the other is so desperate for a connection that they accept it), but there is unlikely to be any sex or longing looks.

[mercury-pheonix.livejournal.com]

I just read the whole of that post in Bob Hale's voice. I am not wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Thank you, thank you very much :D

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

No problem, I LOVE Horrible Histories :D

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

(I am a devoted Jack fan. Is 'Atlantic Cafe' not something I'd enjoy, then, I wonder?)

That Gwen wanted Jack was obvious to me throughout the entire classic series; that she saw him as this enigmatic dashing hero who'd be a huge 'status upgrade' for her if she got him.

I also thought that Jack put moves on Gwen in the very beginning because that's one of his personal people tests: their reactions to being blatantly hit on by him. After Gwen settled into the team, though, all I saw was Jack pushing her away constantly. If he seriously wanted her, he could've had her any time, as she gave him enough openings. The fact that he didn't tells me he wasn't interested enough.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... "Atlantis Café" was born from my firm opinion that Ianto deserved something better than Jack, so it follows that line of thought. I might have grown somewhat more fond of Jack during the years, but I kept this line, since I have them together in every story. I guess you'll just have to give it a try to decide whether you could enjoy it or not.

[pomkeygeekange.livejournal.com]

At first I think it was both lusting after each other. But Gwen lusted after Owen and had Rhys and Jack saw attraction in Ianto and that should have been that.

But After Jack and Ianto got together it was all her Lusting after Him and jack was flattered but not intrested me thinks.

[mscatmoon.livejournal.com]

No contest, Gwen win. Last I looked, Jack wasn't the one who cheated on his boyfriend with a co-worker, Retconned said guy so he could confess without having to live with the consequences, mooned over Jack *while* kissing devoted boyfriend, and last but not least (I'd have tons more examples but I have to leave for work), would have had sex with Jack on her wedding day if only he hadn't have really been a nostrovite.

Oh yeah, lets not forget risking the whole planet to get her guy back -- and then promptly forgetting him for days while she sat by Jack's dead body.

Whoops, wait, you weren't asking who the biggest ho is. Sorry, I got on a roll... Well anyway, several of my examples do prove Gwen's fixation on having Jack for herself someday.

[antopazas.livejournal.com]

I honestly believe that the lusting is mutual, but not comparable.
We have to take Jack's cultural background into consideration. To him having sex with a multitude of different partners is not really a problem, and in his time he can expect people to act the exact same way. It's something fun and enjoyable, it doesn't mean anything more. Sometimes when I watched him flirt and act around people I got the impression that actually ending up between the sheets with somebody he cares for is like the natural progression of giving them a hug, or a kiss on the cheek.
I'm pretty sure that in the beginning, when Tosh and Owen started at TW, he lusted after them too. But he never starts anything with them or Gwen because he has lived in our time long enough to understand that for anyone of his co-workers the meaning of sex is different, and it could lead to some messed up situations.
Now Gwen, Gwen's case is different. She comes from a social context that still (mostly) believes in monogamy, or at least in not sleeping around without your partners permission. To her, sex means something more, as we can also see in her fling with Owen (ego-stroking?). Her lusting after Jack is not something harmless, it's not just 'look and don't touch'. She expects more, not just an evening with Jack to get it out of her system, but some weird form of affair.I say affair because honestly, she would never leave Rhys. What other man would be stupid enough to put up with her and clean up after her?

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Pretty much agreeing with what everyone else here is saying. I mean, Gwen is the one who starts following him around in the first place.

If it isn't a one-sided crush on Jack coming from Gwen, then it's a mutual lusting at least. Like many here have mentioned, I don't think Jack was ever serious about his flirting with Gwen, certainly not if you compare it to his methods concerning Ianto, he always seemed much more naturally open to him.

I still feel that the whole Jack wuvs Gwen thing feels forced, no matter how they put it, because she can't even manage being halfway decent to him most of the time. If someone would spent their days verbally abusing me, then I'd GTFO of there as soon as a I could.

[hydrojen90.livejournal.com]

My personal opinion revolves around the episode 'Something Borrowed'. However much I hate to admit it, YES, Jack did lust after Gwen. However, he didn't do anything about it because sleeping with people in relationships isn't his style. The way I see it is that yes, he might have lusted after Gwen and loved her, but he was IN love with Ianto. Big difference IMO.

Now you get the flip side of Gwen with Jack. In Something Borrowed, she was absolutely prepared to stop the wedding and sleep with Jack ON HER WEDDING DAY. Luckily for us, it was the nostrovite. But that action from her shows us what a cheap, horrible harpy she really is. She wanted Jack and Owen and Rhys and only one truly loved her, the one that she spat on.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

Series 2.
"KKBB": Gwen tells Jack that she's only marrying Rhys because no one else will have her.
"Adam": "I love Rhys, but not in the same way that I love you."
"Meat": She snogs the life out of Rhys on the sofa in the Hub, but her eyes are on Jack the whole time.
"Something Borrowed": She's fully prepared to throw away her pending marriage, for whom she endangered dozens of people just because she couldn't wait long enough to get the Nostrovite spawn out of her gut, by snogging Jack - who turned out to be not Jack at all.

CoE: goes into meltdown on a hilltop in Rhys' arms when she realises that Jack isn't going to stay on Earth and become her personal concubine.

End of argument.