Mega Headslap

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

I am in awe (and not in a good way) of the number of people who are trying to rationalize the monstrous number of plot holes and continuity errors in the series of Torchwood, and especially in this most recent episode.

The excuses that have been made to explain how Jack could have known that he was a fixed point, and so on, are staggering. It's even been suggested that Jack's meeting with what's-his-name in 1927 was in an alternate time line.

Seriously, WTF???

I admit I've not found this series as abhorrent as I expected it to be, but there is no overlooking the gaping holes and errors in the storylines. It just staggers me that people don't want to see what is so glaringly obvious. Also, I find it sad, but not surprising, that many fanfic writers are better at tying up loose ends and avoiding plot holes than the actual show writers.

Comments

[hydrojen90.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree with you more. There's no way to rationalise it: they fucked it up. There is no logical way this could have happened when it did, the way it did. People are saying this is from when he got buried and then dug up.... seriously? He got frozen! Do these people not pay attention to anything that went on in Classic TW? Also, are we expected to believe this happened some time pre-CoE, effectively Jack cheating on Ianto? This would not happen - Jack isn't Gwen!

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

On my browser there are 6 posts from you that are empty. I am curious to know what I am missing.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

me thinks something went wrong with the system there. I highly doubt we're missing much.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the empty posts - LJ was being stupid enough that I thought it was the start of another DDoS.

What I was trying to post is that re the frozen Jack, I'd commented in a couple of places that when Jack got out of the cryo unit, his face was dirt-smudged from being buried 1900 years [actually, I was surprised to see *that* much continuity in S2], and so that was an indicator that he'd been frozen the entire time. Most of the readers poo-poo-ed that observation; they preferred their "frozen between popping out on missions" view.

Edited for correction, because though and thought are not interchangeable. I hate my new keyboard. :(

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Haha, that 'dirty face' argument. I thought it was the 'Exit Wounds' Jack at first, but have changed my mind and am considering an explanation that in 1927 it's a post-WWII Jack on a Torchwood mission to go back in time and save the the XXth century's history from the Trickster's Brigade's parasite (hence the coat and the knowledge of how the parasite would affect the future), and in 1928 it's a post-TYTNW Jack who knows about being a fixed point. Seems kind of neat and fun, with the added timey-wimey, the rest of the lesser incongruities to be fanwanked at leisure. =)

I point and laugh at TPTB's inability to make any of their 'plot points' work at all in MD, but Jack's personal chronology is a subject dear to my heart, so I'm one of those fans struggling to make sense of the flashback episode. Maybe there'll be new info on this matter in the remaining eps, maybe a better theory surfaces... I find the Captain worth a reasonable story, TPTB's carelessness be damned.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

There is new info- JE has admitted she messed up and aplogised if she got the time line wrong- which she did.
So basically it is not timey wimey, however you may wish to spin it, it is yet another cock up.
Whilst fans are content to take any crap the writers spew up, and twist it round to fit what they wish to believe, RTD will continue to make his money.
Job well done.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's been pretty obvious from the start that they just didn't care to pay attention to what they were actually writing. JE is certainly not alone in that lazy approach to MD scripting. But it's so sad... They've screwed up Torchwood, concocted an overstretched idiot plot, and now they've demonstrated a shoking amount of disregard towards Jack. The latter upsets me the worst, because Jack's virtually the sole reason I'm watching. =(

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

How the hell can you just poo-poo on an observation! fine, if that's the case, then I say, jack never said he was a fixed point, the shit is linear.

[milady-dragon.livejournal.com]

They may be able to try to explain away Jack's timeline, but they can't do that with the Empire State Building...which didn't even start construction until 1930.

Do you have any idea how much fun I'm having with that fact?

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

It's the Chrysler Building, actually (its construction only started in autumn 1928, so that doesn't really help).

But it's just a stupid anachronistic backdrop mistake that has nothing to do with the characters, so why would anyone be bothered? And if one was absolutely pressed, for whatever obscure reason, to come up with an 'explanation', the most obvious one is that they built it earlier in DW/TW-verse.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Oh COME ON!!!
It's a bloody great big huge flipping continuity error that the writers were too bored or lazy to get right!!!
OF COURSE IT MATTERS.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's the writers' fault. The script likely said something like: 'Jack stands on roof's edge, NY cityscape in the background'. And then somebody in the crew thought the Chrysler Building was a good idea, and it didn't occur to anybody to check their facts. Anachronistic mistakes occur in historical movies all the time; they are silly, ridiculous, occasionally offensively stupid, but they tend not impact the actual story.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

I'm yet to encounter a reviewer who thought the mistakes in the flashback weren't just that: mistakes. But plenty of people prefer thinking up logical in-universe explanations for continuity errors, so nothing new here - except perhaps the heretofore unseen massive scale of this latest screw-up.

[sarahjane6.livejournal.com]

Isn't gaping plot holes RTD's main directive to the writers he hires? Strange I thought that was in the overall last two series plans. Oh, just ignore that the viewers will never notice, they're too enamored with me er Gwen.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Old viewers forget that Rusty always writes for his shiny new viewers. He doesn't give a fig about canon, and has said so. But folks will twist themselves into pretzels to justify sloppy writing.

And I can't see this being an alternative timeline because then they'd have to explain to viewers all about Jack's backstory, with being buried by Grey, and Stephen, and the Doctor and they are not going to do that.

Lines about loving the coat, and 'I'm a fixed point in time' are Rusty's way of acknowledging the old viewers, but he can't be arsed to even get them right. When Jack tells Angelo he's a fixed point in time, the point he is making is not even about that. Apparently JE didn't even understand what that actually meant.

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

each new plot hole is like a new mine on a mine field,. waiting to expolde and cause more choas and confusion for the viewers.

[mscatmoon.livejournal.com]

I think RTD has outdone himself. The plot holes are so bad now that even if I wanted to write fanfic in the COE and MD universe (like a fixit) -- they're just too glaring and the writing too sloppy. I hold myself up to better standards as a fic writer. Also I hate Gwen so much now that I couldn't write a story with her in it. I used to write a lot of Quantum Leap fic (which was a quality show), and we fans went to a lot of pains to make sure the time travel stuff made sense and wasn't flawed. Actually, I used to hate the last season of QL, but now compared to MD I find myself longing to see Sam leap into Elvis or Dr. Ruth -- brilliant stuff compared to MD!

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

You can't fix Gwen, so no point in trying, really.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

You know if they hadn't insulted half their fandom post CoE RTD and co could just sit back and smile right now and make it all go away with the simple words: "Anything is possible in Sci-Fi". But no, he wanted it to be serious drama, with serious viewers who seriously understand serious drama... well and that's exactly what I expect from him. My 5 year old cousin could come up with a better plot with a little help from wikipedia...

Over at SCB somebody pointed out that in that web comic (web of lies something) Jack disappears at some point and that maybe in the end they will say that he time traveled there and then... but (spoilers ahead) he still has his coat and gun and most of all at some point Gwen seems to be talking with Tosh over the coms, which means its most likely set in S1 or 2 somewhere. One can only hope it's early S1 because if not... well they just created ANOTHER plot hole. Ianto is the love of Jack's life, huh? (As it was said in THotD) So how come he not only shags (we know Jack cheats and always cheats...) but also falls in love with that Italian dude at the same time??? Plot hole, plot holes, plot holes where ever you look... seriously I have been a fantasy/sci-fi fan for ages, but I have never seen a show turned into such a mess that it technically can't even "move" anymore without falling into a plot hole.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Jack's timeline is ridiculously dodgy and filled with gaps, but they STILL manage to make a paradoxal flashback...I mean, what! really? Was it that hard to not include the fixed point thing and the coat.

I think that if you gave the script of it to a random Torchwood fan, they'd immediatly spot that mistake and ask, when in Jack's timeline is this exactly?

I'm sorry, I haven't been following Web of Lies..do you know what's it about? I thought it was about the NEW torchwood team, but apparently they're still milking out the old one. You're right, I don't buy it that Jack has such major issues with Ianto, while he's willing to happily skip off into the sunset with Angelo. I also don't believe that Jack would just go "well, different time, different boyfriend!" I mean I KNOW he's a bit of a flirt but I honestly believe that he'll respect boundaries if he sees them (Gwen/Rhys anyone?). Captain Jack Harkness not withstanding, the man would be dead the next morning.

Besides, it CAN'T be early season one, because Jack didn't know he was a fixed point then. that only happened between season one and two.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

I'm not following Web of Lies closely - just with half an eye, actually, but from what I recall, it's two parallel stories told: in the present time, right after the Miracle started, a woman finds out that somebody shot her brother, making him an unresponsive and unconscious CAT1, because he was a conspiracy theorist who somehow stumbled upon information about Miracle Day weeks before it happened. The other storyline is set in 2007 (I think), and Jack mysteriously disappears without trace during a mission he was on with Gwen, so Gwen tries to track him down while he's being repeatedly killed by some obscure bad guy and held in Chernobyl (wtf). In the latest installment, Gwen finally arrives in Chernobyl to try and rescue Jack, and in present time the woman is caught by some random guys who also want to find the key to the Miracle her brother was murdered for.

Um, just in case you were wondering.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

Huh?!

what's that got to do with anything? Why are we looking at Gwen saving Jack's sorry ass? Is it just more torture porn or what? I mean, it's 2007 guys, Ianto is still alive! If you're going to spend time in 2007 bring in the whole team...who knows, the ratings might actually go up!

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Yep, definitely 2007, I went back to check.

By the by, in that newest seventh installment, it's Gwen arriving and immediately failing to save Jack, who's strung onto some metal table, from torture porn (which is not really torture porn due to very clunky and barely-there animation) as she's outsmarted by the villain.

What the WoL flashback stuff's got to do with Miracle, if anything, is yet to be revealved. In the last installment, probably.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

well, quite honestly, I expect nothing less of a villian...I mean, being outsmarted by Gwen! If that happens to a bad guy their license should be taken away.

What's more: the boss leaves HQ/gets kidnapped and he takes his second in command WITH HIM? shouldn't you leave the SIC at base and take someone else with you, so that things back at HQ run smoothly.

Well, that confirms it, Gwen isn't the Second.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

Pft, of course she isn't! She'd just like to think so, and the others let her so she doesn't nag.

Anyway, Jack gets kidnapped and cannot contact anybody; Gwen decides to go after him of her own choice. I didn't follow how exactly did she manage to find him, but I don't recall noticing any mention of the old team at all...

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

but I don't recall noticing any mention of the old team at all

Now that just hurts, they said they were going to honor the old series. What? they can't even mention the Torchwood team members in a Flashback where they belong...sure guys, respect to the old crowd, respect.

Meanwhile back at the Hub, Ianto, Tosh and Owen have already established Jack's position and are waiting for gwen to spring the trap the bad guys set, so they can go in and rescue the boss.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, back in the Hub Ianto, Owen and Tosh create their own cyberselfs to stay (and get killed) with Jack and Gwennie in the future while the real ones head of to.... well technically ANYTHINGS is better then staying with the show at this point....

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

When I write a story I note things down about the characters if am going to use them again in another story. I feel it is a pity that professionals seem unable to do that because you can be sure if you make an error someone will notice and point it out.

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

That's because you actually care about continuity.
RTD think he is above such nonsense.
God I hate that man, which is ridiculous as I do not know him.....

You'll find no argument here...

[sandysan2013.livejournal.com]

I have found the writers in the Torchwood fandom are far better than the paid professional who have put their mark on the show. RTD had a great idea and lousy execution. The lack of thematic, character, and timeline continuity in the new MD is appalling. The problem is that if you pay attention none of it makes sense. New viewers won't know what as gone before so they can be excused for not recognizing the problem. The writers, none of them, have an excuse. They should all have watched the previous seasons to know what was cannon and what was not. I know RTD wanted a fresh start and he could have had that even with this basic theme if he were a bit more creative in coming up w/a plausible premise for the Miracle and Torchwood's involvement in it. There really ought to be a SFX award category for Worst Series Continuity. It would be the only award for which Torchwood Miracle Day would would be a sure winner.

[teleens-journal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, considering that Jack held on to the TARDIS all the way to the year 100 trillion to find out that little piece of info - fuck RTD for fucking that up.

I've only watched episode 7 and then only because I was talked into it. Not watching anymore until I find out if they kill Jack. Until then, it's time I could be studying. And I'd rather get it all on demand and watch it on fast-forward, anyway...