Miracle Whip - self-recycled?

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

I've watched "Small Worlds" today on German TV and realized something that had slipped my mind: that episode already had a paedophile! What's it with the Rustoid and child hatred anyway? Aside from the fact that he even plagiarizes himself? Well, at least the show he was responsible for at that time...

"Small Worlds" had some remarkable Gwen moments. She behaved like an elephant in a china shop. But this was the ep that warmed me up for Jack for the first time. And not only because he snarled at the Gwenninator a few times.

What a wonderful little show it once used to be!

Comments

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

honestly, I feel that CoE was the rehashed version of small worlds...strange beings come for the kiddies, Jack becomes morally foul by sacrificing a kid. Someone from Jack's personal life gets killed and oh yeah, Gwen was in there to much.

As for Miracle Day...My first thoughts went back to reset and a day in death. Where something that is first seen as a miracle, a cure, is then part of a secret conspiracy that goes tits up. People secretly infiltrating organisations. Also, there is the whole Owen should be dead but isn't and can't heal any of his wounds anymore. It's just an inflated worldwide version of thát.

Quite frankly I think RTD just went like, meh, let's take something someone ELSE has already written and just changes the fact a bit. The emotional and ethical struggles remain the bloody same.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that the whole infiltration thingy has been done a thousand times better in "Sleeper".

[kperdnusse1.livejournal.com]

But surely they plagiarised him! It's not his fault that those episodes were written first. Obviously they cheated and stole his genius somehow. Maybe they borrowed the TARDIS.

It would be interesting to run his scripts through the programme we had to submit essays to at uni. It measured plagiarism. I would expect a score of at least 85%.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

*Maybe they borrowed the TARDIS*

Or Jack's faulty vortex manipulator. That would explain how they've ended up with something so much better than the Rustoid's "original".

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

The only thing he forgot when he copied Small Worlds into CoE were the Mara, because honestly where the hell were they? They should have kicked the 456s butt 10mins into Day 1 because technically there MUST have been a chosen one among the ones "chosen" by the government.


The only plot RTD clearly bothers with is Excalibur which seems to be come more and more real in the form of Gwenwood. Everything he needs to get there he steal from other shows or his own writers.

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

That's part of the reason why CoE doesn't feel like Torchwood at all: it ignores too much of the previous story. As you said, there must have been at least one Chosen One among the 10% of children that were to be handed over, and considering that the Mara were quite willing to destroy the world over not getting a Chosen One before, it seems hard to believe that they would completely ignore it now. Then there's the Doctor, who has always been going on about his love for humanity in general, and yet we're meant to believe that he'd turn his back on the children of his favourite race because of some mistakes the adults made? Really? And what about the Rift, anyway? Blowing up the Hub can't have done it any good. And why weren't there any body parts from the bodies in the morgue among the rubble, when they were looking for Jack's remains? None of it makes any sense. And that's even before you start looking at the OOC behaviour of the remaining Torchwood team...

*hugs you for trying to decipher the madness8

[scorpiodragon.livejournal.com]

It doesn't make sense because you're using things like logic and rational thinking, both of which RTD lost sometime ago; if he ever had them at all because really what show creator goes on the record saying "there is no canon."

Re: *hugs you for trying to decipher the madness8

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

One with a complete lack of talent and an attitude problem.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

Also could a bomb small enough to fit into Jack's stomach without him noticing what he carries around really destroy the Hub that badly? Even if they placed it directly into his stomach (a part of our anatomy used to getting stretched) he should have at least wondered why he suddenly felt as if he just had lunch. If they placed it anywhere else it should have caused him heavy pain and no longer fitting pants. Cardiff was badly raided during WW2, esp. the dock and the Hub is right in the middle of them. If a small bomb in a stomach can blast away their roof then a single HE bomb should have destroyed the Hub even worse.And even IF the government could create a bomb that strong yet very small, imagine if he wouldn't have returned to the Hub directly, maybe stuck in traffic or what ever. There would be a f***ing crater from Ilandaff all the way to Spott.

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

Not to mention the supposed blast-radius of that bomb, which doesn't match the crater left behind in any way, shape or form.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Ugh, folks, now you've really frightened me! The sequel to "Lost in the Past" is supposed to deal with the aftermath of that explosion - how am I going to make it work then?

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

Most stories I've seen just ignore the blast-radius we were told it is and went with the one we saw, instead - that usually seems to work quite well, and that way, you can base the story on the destruction we saw was actually there. Just because RTD doesn't check his figures shouldn't be a reason to put you off your story :)

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

It was there in the show so I think it is okay to use it in fanfiction, otherwise it would be impossible to write TW fanfiction at all because of all the plot holes. (Edit because of big fat spello)

[aeshna-cyanea.livejournal.com]

I agree with all this, and additionally wonder why Torchwood Cardiff didn't have some sort of blast chamber or whatever in the hub. You can't tell me that in well over a century of dealing with all sorts of stuff spat out by the Rift, this was the first time that they had something in the hub that exploded.

Even if they didn't have some sort of structure where the bomb could have exploded without causing much damage, what about that alien containment cell from the episode "Ghost Machine"? At the very least, it should have been able to absorb some of the energy of the explosion, and so lessen the damage to the hub.

And what about the singularity scalpel? Even if Gwen and Ianto were unable to handle it safely, having a hole ripped into you by the scalpel as it gets the bomb out would still be a "better" death than being blown up.

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

You see, there's the mistake in your logic. You actually suppose that CoE has the slightest to do with whatever was going on in the first two seasons. It does not. There are three characters with the same names as the surviving TW3 members, but the names are the only things they really share.

[kamiandcat.livejournal.com]

The time lock we see in DWs Stolen Earth?

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

I am not really worried about whether or not it could or could not- maybe it was alien?- what worries me is why the scanner picked up Gwen's pregnancy , and allowed all that time for congratulations, explanations and Ianto admitting to losing the "car" (for those none UKers- a Range Rover is actually less of a car than it is an SUV! Some idiots, mainly those on Top Gear, do call it a "Rangy" but it is a Range Rover, possibly a Sloane Pram [ and that ages me] but it is NOT a car and it is NOT an SUV)OK, digressing again.....ALL that time elapsed before the scanner (that RTD inserted into this series, remember) sees fit to say "Oops, oh, by the way, you might want to check out this bomb thing I just found....."
Now, left to it's own, cardboard shaky set, self, the OS would have inserted a bomb room Jack did not tell anyone about, around now, and they would have had to watch him blow up- (YUK)- and my version, which is still somewhere on Teaspoon, would have inserted Tosh (because we all know no-one in their right mind would have killed Tosh off, right?) asking why the scanners she put up on all exits and entrances (long, long ago) did not pick up the bomb on entry.

But, as someone has already pointed out, there is little point in trying to glean logic from a totally illogical, shambling, train wreck of a script/story.
And I for one, who am a real writer (ie I do actually do research and do actually try to keep track of my characters and what they have done- new to FF, NOT new to writing!) and SOOO tired of making excuses/hearing other people make excuses for RTD's awful writing that I am no longer interested in writing anything (TW, that is) that has (almost) anything to do with so called "canon"

Apropos of nothing, I have watched the film "Stardust" I cannot remember how many times and totally failed to realise it was written by Neil Gaiman! And here's me wondering why I liked it.....

Apropos of nothing #2- why exactly, don't people like Ziva?
OK, I admit to a very shallow bias, and admit that I might not be actually listening to what she is saying half the time......
But I payed attention this last couple of episodes and I still do not see(....er...hear....er perceive ) much to dislike. Had Sasha Alexander not chosen to leave I should have been righteously angry as I liked her, too, but, under the circumstances I find the character fits well, and the acting, all round, leaves the whole TW universe, I am sorry to say, standing.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

What bothered me most about Ziva was the accent, it was so drawn out and mostly done JUST to show, look this is Ziva, she's OBVIOUSLY a foreigner...and if she'd made the accent convincing or sound less hackled (to my ears anyway) then I would've probably warmed up to her sooner. Cote de pablo's natural voice sounds fine and I wouldn't have missed the accent if it were gone. Of course, she probably could've done one hell of a latino accent, which would've worked perfectly if Ziva's backstory had been a little different...but especially when she was new to show (it's gotten much better but I'm just not all that into NCIS anymore) the accent was laided on to thick and just sounded very forced.

Of course, it also didn't help that she felt like such an OBVIOUS replacement...same tough women act, same UST-vibe with Tony. Now I get that it was difficult for the writers because Alexander wanted to leave, but I would've totally been cool with someone who was a lot calmer and not the Terminator incarnated (cause that's what I felt like they were trying to represent, this G.I. Jane/superspy/assasin). those things just rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm sure that by now, she's well fit to play Ziva and has her nailed down, either because the writers went a little less extreme or because De Pablo grew into her role. But like I said, I've moved on from NCIS for a bit, yeah, it's not bad to watch, but it's grown a bit old. The quality between Torchwood and NCIS is way to big to even compare. Ofcourse Torchwood leaves it standing and Gwen is a million times worse than Ziva. it's just that, between all the brilliant actors that NCIS has, Ziva stood out like a sore thumb, while we've grown used to the (mild) overacting and OOCness that is Torchwood.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

Her accent irritated me. As I live in Britain and speak in a foreign language a great deal of the time I obviously have an accent but I don't exaggerate it, and it always irritates me when folk in TV programs do just that.

As for Miracle Crap--well----I can't think of anything polite to say about it---

[wanda1969.livejournal.com]

I don't mind someone giving a reverential nod towards other writers/films etc. I love 'Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey', because you get to look at what the directors/writers obviously thought were iconic moments in film and TV... But stealing other people's plots, or even you own, without a 'nod' to the original seems a bit, well, NAUGHTY- make it obvious and reverential, in a way, and viewers will take it on.
But pretending it's all original is beyond the pale!

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

Yes and if you notice in Small Worlds, when Jack loses Estelle, Owen and Tosh give him space but our slowest horse crosses the finishing line as she realised what we worked out when we first seen Estelle; that 'Jack's dad' was 'Jack'. When i seen that I sarcastically thought "Well done Gwen here's a Blue Peter badge."

Rusty does seem to have an issue with children and the government. In DW aliens seem to take over Downing Street very easily (Slitheen + the Master)and in COE the government was corrupt and the children had to be taken. did they honestly not think of telling the 456 to stick their offer where the sun doesn't shine or simply tell them "You want our kids? Well come out here and get them yourself." and then kicking 456 ass when they did?

I dont know, trying to figure this out just makes me even more confused

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Isn't that somewhere in Lancre?
Out by Slice....

[bk_forever]

*snort*

Does sound like it could be!

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

hey next thing you know they'll be fighting Cannibals or another long-lost half converted Cyberwoman. i mean, it's not like THAT happened before? *sarcasm*

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they'll discover that Oswald not only molests and kills children but eats them, too?

[irishjantogirl.livejournal.com]

£50 says that's Anwen's fate.
Oswald: What a sexy, I mean, cute baby. Mind if I look after her?
Gwen: Sure, you seem nice. I'm sure the paedophilia charge was just made up. *hands over Anwen* Well I'm off to blow shit up with a weapon that could kill anyone but me.
Oswald: Mmmm dinnertime....

And so ends the life of baby Anwen....

[wiseheart.livejournal.com]

Well, look at the bright side: that way, the poor child is spared the fate of growing up with a "mother" like the Gwenninator.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

RTD's writing is filled with plot holes. He admitted in an interview that he wrote everything at the last possible moment and in a great rush. Presumably he doesn't then check anything because there is no time to do so.

The thing that puzzles me is that so many folk continually say what a great writer he is whereas I think he's crap.

[jsks.livejournal.com]

thank god for savecoffeeboy and sister site sij because they just ran a snippet of a q&a with rusty defender ausiello asking what he thought about gwenwood after seeing the first three episodes. he said liked md but didn't love it. after watching the first three episodes ausiello says he didn't like the pullman story line(which he called dull, duller, dullest) and that there are 2 sex scenes in episode 3 which was written not by rusty but by espenson. in fact he called the execution of the first 3 episodes "boring" and that gwenwood would need a real md if it hoped to make it to a another season.
how ironic after rusty and his minions said that critics of coe watched torchwood to see boys kissing one of rusty's chief defenders mentions that only good thing in gwenwood are two sex scene.

[dr-doomsduck.livejournal.com]

lolwhat? A rusty defender and highly esteemed reviewer says he doesn't love it AND that it's not going to deserve another season?

Excuse me while I go celebrate the rightness of the universe! This is the best thing I've heard since I figured there's an x-men first class slash comm

[kassy2.livejournal.com]

Yes, he had to pull his head right out of RTD's arse to write all that down, too- it is possible to get his laptop up there as well but then it is too dark to see what he is writing.

OK, following on from that revolting scene......I wonder whose arse RTD has his head up, as this would explain an awful lot.

I do realise that in this thread I claimed to be a writer and have just proven that, in fact, I can hardly lay claim to that title but that little bit of visualisation was just too good to pass by....

[jsks.livejournal.com]

glad to bring you happy news.