(![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
blackalchemist.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
antigwenallies Oct. 23rd, 2009 05:55 pm)
blackalchemist.livejournal.com posting in antigwenallies Oct. 23rd, 2009 05:55 pm)So, today I stumbled onto a semi-gwack fic. It was actually pretty good. O'course, there wasn't any gwack in it. (at least not that I could see and not ignore) So why are am I posting you may ask. Well, I was reading the comments for the fic, and something got me chuckling. Apparently Gwackers refer to Ianto as 'RTD's mary-sue'. I was puzzled because:
A) Ianto is MALE (thus would be a 'Gary Stu' if he was one)
B) Ianto has nearly no lines until cyberwoman, while gwen has whole episodes devoted to her and her life throughout the whole series
C) Gwen is the one who joins Torchwood (much like a self-insert gone horribly, horribly wrong) without training, and then nearly instantly becomes the 'heart of the team' and the 'moral centre', while cheating on her boyfriend with a co-worked AND lusting after her boss.
So could someone explain it to me?
A) Ianto is MALE (thus would be a 'Gary Stu' if he was one)
B) Ianto has nearly no lines until cyberwoman, while gwen has whole episodes devoted to her and her life throughout the whole series
C) Gwen is the one who joins Torchwood (much like a self-insert gone horribly, horribly wrong) without training, and then nearly instantly becomes the 'heart of the team' and the 'moral centre', while cheating on her boyfriend with a co-worked AND lusting after her boss.
So could someone explain it to me?
Tags:
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
From:
no subject
We saw him go from tea-boy to action-hero slowly over 3 series', whereas gwen made that transitio in one day.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
When they blamed Ianto as a overly idealized mary sue, they are in fact trying to explain why they suddenly felt Jack and Ianto made a heaven-made match.
Train them well, and they will become Janto fan. :)
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
Umm...they're delusional?
From:
no subject
*nods* That looks pretty accurate to me! ^^
From:
I have a very particular theory about this
1. Ianto is the character that RTD has put everything he's insecure about, this is obvious in CoE, because RTD's perception are screwy, everything that he didn't like turns out to be things that endear Ianto to the viewers. Gwen on the other hand, is the character whose shoes that RTD would like to wear, the fantasy character with immunity, and alas, people don't like her...most people and most times (sometimes I do, when Everybody Lives, I can like her)...
2. Acting: GDL has made the character his own, the line "Risen Mittens" could have been stupid, but not the way he said it. By the time of S2, Myles have Stopped Trying. Back in TKKS, her character was real to me, there was subtly in the way she smiled when talking about the afterlife, and then when she realised that there is a hole in her head. By the time of CoE, she was phoning it in...she wasn't THAT good to begin with, she could act but she had ways to go, which was okay, but she gave up. ...that was stupid because unlike Sean Connery by the time he made League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...she probably had not made enough as him to get careless, even in badly written drama like CoE.
In CoE, her range was down to either Bland Smile or Complete Break Down. Now, part of this can be bad direction and bad writing, but the actress and actor has responsibility to make good the bad, best that they can, Bette Davis herself frequently did this, and her character pointed out the times when she had to rewrite lines to stop people from leaving, in "All About Eve". GDL requested the "I love yous" be taken out. ...sometimes directors are stubborn, but think long term, it's better to ditch a ship before it drag you down if the director is REALLY stubborn.
The Bland Smile was worse when Gwen met up with Lois, if I had just saw that scene out of context, I would assume that Lois was an accountant who had spotted an accounting error in the company report, and came to Gwen the HR about it, hoping to score a job, and Gwen the HR drops her a line for a future interview. It does not fit with what happened before. Where was Gwen's subtle paranoia? The Hub blew up with Jack in it, she's pregnant now, but what we got was bland smile.
The thing that made me head desk was how inconsistent CoE was even within itself, now, fanfic can explain it (like, if Gwen had put on a Mask after Tosh and Owen died, explaining bland smile, and then the complete break down), but it shouldn't be fandom's job to fill such gaping plot holes.
The video to Doctor scene had me eyerolling, why dear woman, are you frightening the children by making that recording? How about using your time to barricade? Set traps. Instead of breaking down in front of the vidcam, they should have written Gwen as setting up traps. ...but since they wrote it, and if Myles couldn't get that taken out, she should have done it more matter of factly. Instead of breaking down, which would make the cam a strange thing to do in midst of break down...it should have been cold resignation, if she was going to do that instead of anything useful. Dead eyes monotone, and a tight smile for the children, basically act like the way a parent might act before killing their children to spare them of worse (like, zombies).
From:
the stupid monologue
"There is one thing I've always meant to ask Jack, back in the old days...I wanted to know about that Doctor of his, the man who appears out of nowhere and saves the world, except, sometimes, he doesn't *eye widening*"
...now out of context, that could have been cool, if the context was, Gwen was alone somewhere, waiting for death, in the aftermath, or at least not in the middle of the mayham...her vid looks like something made by a locked in survivor after Zombie Day. All she did in the monologue was read things to the camera with wide eyes. In context, where the children are still there, WTF? Plus, try muting it. Now, I initially remember her as breaking down, due to the text, and her not doing anything, but upon a closer look, trying muting it, and it's just lame.
Although, Blame RTD, the video thing was something he probably tacked on after someone raised the question of Where's The Doctor?
How about having a voice over and have it in her head? ...but no, that wouldn't look good in a trailer eh?
From:
Re: the stupid monologue
From:
Re: the stupid monologue
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
She really is a hate-filled, rancid, delusional person.
*nods* She is not a Gwacker, though. She is just a Ianto/GDL hater. And of the worst species. Probably becase she herself wants badly to be TW Mary-Sue ;P
As for those who don't know who this sad person we're talking about is, you are far way better with not knowing her.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
No I don't know her and I prefer to not know her.
From:
no subject
I've just joined here. I wasn't a Gwen hater actually but thanks to CoE now I can't avoid the feeling of immense dislike for the least interesting character.
No, you really don't want to know her - or her cohorts of sock puppets - trust me ;P
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
I always thought Janto sounded like an aftershave cologne where as Gwack sounded like you were coughing up phelm
but I like the sound of a duck when stepped on
From:
no subject
Also, if Ianto is Mary-Sue, why RTD kill him?
From:
no subject
What really 'did my head in' was the fact that all the characters were so completely 'out of character' in order to satisfy the writer's fantasy. All very odd. And it IS a fantasy- nothing in the show, to me at least, gives this impression.
As for this 'Mary Sue' business, I kind of get the idea and 'Ianto' does NOT equate to 'Mary Sue'...
Ah well, I have tosay I'd like to read whatever this is just so I could dissect it!