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antigwenallies Oct. 19th, 2009 07:02 am)
onlyoneargess.livejournal.com posting in antigwenallies Oct. 19th, 2009 07:02 am)I've been thinking about this for awhile now and I want to put it to everyone. While back in series one of Doctor Who, RTD saw how popular Jack was with Doctor Who fans and namely the British public. He then decided to write Jack coming back from the dead and immortal to boot in order to have him come back from time to time to help the Doctor out.
But what would happen if John was busy with other things, West End or other TV projects and couldn't come back to help him or Doctor Who out?
Here the BBC comes in and wants an adult version of a Doctor Who show. So he dusts off the script Excailber shoehoring Capt. Jack into the storyline. He has Jack and John where he can use both whenever and wherever he wants.
But his story about a lady cop running around Cardiff chasing aliens doesn't go according to plans. What is he to do? He and I do belive this is where he starts his deconstruction of Jack begins. In series one, Jack the Time Agent from the 51st century who's been a con man doesn't have any safegaurds built into the Torchwood mainframe.
He has a cyberman in the bowels of Torchwood, his computer person is co-opted by an alien enity, his medical personell has been having an affair right under his nose with another worker. This alone would show him to be incompetent, but there are others, his police person has used Retcon to cover-up her affair with his medic, also said medic fall in love with a person form anither time, and Jack allows another person to commit suicide with him watching.
Then after all this, an alien named Billis is used to weaken Jack and his personell even more. This builds up even more to End of Days when his use of writing down computer and safe codes in a book. The Jack from the 51st would have used a much more complex use of safegaurds in the security of the Torchwood Hub, let alone the safety of the planet besides a retnail scan as a final measure.
The final straw is that he takes the Gwen, the real person that RTD wants as the lead of the programme, with him to face the beast that she hepled released. In the end she saves Jack and the world, not the reverse.
In series two he futher his deconstruction of Jack wih John Hart, Gray, Adam, the Sleeper cell Owens deaths and then Tosh. Series three is Jacks final nail in the coffin. But it's not only his "death", so to speak it's also Ianto's too, because RTD ret-cons his character too. Ianto is deconstructed back to the very beginning of series one where we really don't know anything about him also according to RTD.
Discuss and comment, as you will.
But what would happen if John was busy with other things, West End or other TV projects and couldn't come back to help him or Doctor Who out?
Here the BBC comes in and wants an adult version of a Doctor Who show. So he dusts off the script Excailber shoehoring Capt. Jack into the storyline. He has Jack and John where he can use both whenever and wherever he wants.
But his story about a lady cop running around Cardiff chasing aliens doesn't go according to plans. What is he to do? He and I do belive this is where he starts his deconstruction of Jack begins. In series one, Jack the Time Agent from the 51st century who's been a con man doesn't have any safegaurds built into the Torchwood mainframe.
He has a cyberman in the bowels of Torchwood, his computer person is co-opted by an alien enity, his medical personell has been having an affair right under his nose with another worker. This alone would show him to be incompetent, but there are others, his police person has used Retcon to cover-up her affair with his medic, also said medic fall in love with a person form anither time, and Jack allows another person to commit suicide with him watching.
Then after all this, an alien named Billis is used to weaken Jack and his personell even more. This builds up even more to End of Days when his use of writing down computer and safe codes in a book. The Jack from the 51st would have used a much more complex use of safegaurds in the security of the Torchwood Hub, let alone the safety of the planet besides a retnail scan as a final measure.
The final straw is that he takes the Gwen, the real person that RTD wants as the lead of the programme, with him to face the beast that she hepled released. In the end she saves Jack and the world, not the reverse.
In series two he futher his deconstruction of Jack wih John Hart, Gray, Adam, the Sleeper cell Owens deaths and then Tosh. Series three is Jacks final nail in the coffin. But it's not only his "death", so to speak it's also Ianto's too, because RTD ret-cons his character too. Ianto is deconstructed back to the very beginning of series one where we really don't know anything about him also according to RTD.
Discuss and comment, as you will.
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At the end of COE we are left with Gwen, plus her family. Jack couldn't be killed so RTD just ruined his life. What we are left with is Excalibur. -- Vollendete Tatsachen ---
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Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
Even discounting Torchwood, CoE was like, Final Destination, destruction porn that states no new messages nor hold up to repeated viewing. Area 51 was a popular place to put aliens in American fiction because it was isolated. Why would they build the thing in the middle of London, especially after Canary Warf? I'm No Cheerleader For The English, but you guys you guys, I expected more competence from the people who used to pwn people so successfully. Lois and her easy access, that the 456 were here before but no plan has been prepared to take them down...hello, Badass Decay!
I heard something about Excalibur having a detective that deals with alien...played by Gwen though? Silly RTD, he could have had Gwen as a detective that runs into Torchwood, instead of jamming his Snow White in there, trying to have it both that she's suited for Torchwood and Too Good a person for it at once.
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Re: Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
What does this sentence mean? Also, what is Quarter mass? I guess I could look it up------
As for the English, Dan and I like them, which is why we live in London but neither of us are English, although my Grandfather was Scottish.
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Re: Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
...but the whole point was, the English used to be Bad Ass, the Magnificent Bastards, who fought Queen Mary of Scots by buying out many of her guards on the border, and of course, used their new religion (with the monarch of England as the head) as a loyalty tool. China went down like Rome, there was a lot of internal corruption...but a lot of governments have those and pulled through, the problem was, Opium, which at once, depleted the national supply of sliver, and ruined the minds of those needed to run it.
Once established, the opium problem never really went away, the pool of addicts never disappear at once, so there were always dealers, introducing new addicts all the time. It came back after WWII during the really hard times, a relative of mine was briefly addicted to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatermass_(TV_serial)
...and speaking of looking things up, it should be realllly obvious why there are many people, other than the Americans who are grieving because they were overtaxed for tea, have trouble cheering for the English, even while we are pointing out how competent they are. I don't want to put up a historical example of how bad ass the English were, enough that they could have dealt with the 456, without disclaiming first that I don't cheer for them, because what they did in history was wrong.
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Re: Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
I do know something about Mary Queen of Scots. However, I must admit the only things I can really remember about her for certain is that she was very tall and had red hair and Queen Elizabeth of England imprisoned her and then had her executed.
{I asked my daughter what she knew about Queen Elizabeth and she said she was bald and had no teeth and never married.}
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Re: Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
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Re: Well if that was Excalibur, it really sucks then
You obviously find it hard to believe that in some countries learning about what English royalty did hundreds of years ago is not actually considered very important. Which seems to contradict your earlier statements--
I thought my daughters comment was meant to be funny--
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Mostly I think it's bad writing
...and yee gods, did RTD take Myles with him when he splinted off to Hollywood? ...as in, any indication that she'll be following shortly? I think RTD thinks that Myles is great, in that he thinks that she can bring in a lot of audience and money for him, like Gwen is his Buffy, but no actual affection here...cause hey, she's an icky icky GIRL.
Followers of Joss's work, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, can totally recognize ideas in Torchwood that RTD probably ganked from Joss...
see this: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:YU6SxwfPsyRGYM:http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/files/2008/08/firefly_cast.jpg
Doesn't Malcolm Reynolds;'s clothing and pose resemble what Jack did, when he finally got on Torchwood, 2006? Jack dressed differently on Torchwood then when he first appeared in Who, he picked up blue shirt and suspenders and that pose (which is different than his Who persona), and this was after Firefly came out (and got cancelled), 2002.
Hell, maybe when RTD suggested the character concept to Moffat, he was thinking of Reynolds...he does pay attention to a lot of big hollywood works, Joss's and Supernatural. I know I always count Moffat as Jack's Real Daddy..
See. Malcolm Reynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Reynolds)
Conceived by Joss Whedon, the character Malcolm Reynolds was the only definite character he had in mind when formulating the ensemble cast. He wanted a hero, but not a hero in the classic sense; someone that is "everything that a hero is not."[2]
In the proposed pilot, Mal was much darker and considerably more closed-off. FOX network executives objected, and asked that Mal be "lightened up". For the second episode ("The Train Job"), Whedon created a more "jolly" Mal Reynolds.[3]
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Oh gosh, additional Joss awesome
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Re: Oh gosh, additional Joss awesome
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0965394/
It's called Sanctuary. The lead writer is Damian Kindler, one of the writers of Stargate Sg-1, Martan Wood who also comes from Sg-1 is a director.
Amanda Tapping is not only the lead actress but is also one of the Exe. Producers. Ryan Robbins is also one of Stargate Atlantis veterans along with Chris Heyerdahl.
They have all but two, Robin Dunne and Emilie Ullerup, have come from people they have worked with before. And series 1 cliffhanger ended in a way where you never saw it coming.
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Re: Oh gosh, additional Joss awesome
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but I love Amanda Tapping anyways, and The Wizard Did It
Like, with television, and an increasingly number of people who were Raised By Television, with increased travel between countries and cheap internet teleconferences, people are increasingly adapting mannerisms that are not local at all. Monkey see, monkey do, especially when this started when they were little.
During high school, I was puzzled when some people said my accent was Britishy...that was when I was watching a lot of British sitcoms. When I was watching a lot of subtitle animes, some English words that I hear a lot in them, I end up saying with a Japanese accent exactly the way I heard it on the show.
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Re: but I love Amanda Tapping anyways, and The Wizard Did It
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Re: Mostly I think it's bad writing
Last I heard of EM was that she was heavily pregnant, and also that she was planning on taking up to a year off afterwards.
Which of course means that if the BBC want Gwenwood, they'll have to wait until at least this time next year to start filming for a 2011 airdate.
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Re: Mostly I think it's bad writing
Another year to wait the nightmare.
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Re: Mostly I think it's bad writing
(of course, a part of me is hoping that by the time TPTB realize that Torchwood needs Ianto/GDL, that GDL is so busy working that he'll be able to (politely of course) tell them to shove it)
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Re: Mostly I think it's bad writing
What I hope is GDL say yes but with his term. Much more place in the show, a big salary etc...
Than much more Ianto and Jack and bye bye Gwen ;)
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...but if i were to picture Myles following RTD to Hollywood
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Re: Mostly I think it's bad writing
Totally agree. COE is like a remix of old show. Anyway, no I don't think Gwen have the potential to bring full money to the show. Well I hope.
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I watch Torchwood for Ianto (my favorite) and Jack. Tosh was awesome too. Owen, I begin to love him in season 2.
Gwen, I think you already know.
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My only question is why waste two years to doing that?
Create all the novels, radiorama, 2 series and destroy all that to create a centric to Gwen and still call that Gwenwood.
Really pathetic. I remember now to not waste my time anymore with this show if they want to do that in this way.
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Funny to see how they use us. I am actually think how much I am stupid to buy season 1-2 in DVD and buy the novels. I can't read them anymore and watch my DVD. What the point anyway. Three of them are dead.
She won the best actress?
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I stopped buying the books. They were not that good and way too much Gwen and Rhys. It was almost like they were pushing their "togetherness" down our throats. Rhys was too involved in the cases as if he was a TW member. I bought Almost Perfect because it was supposed to be alot of Janto but I was very disappointed. Jack and Ianto seemed totally disconnected from each other and neither one seemed at all concerned that Ianto had become a woman nor were they interested in finding out how and why it happened or how to reverse it. I read somewhere that they writers had to get approval before they released the books. Maybe that's why they were so boring and Gwen-centric.
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For almost perfect, Jack say to Ianto he miss him (in reference to Ianto in boy) but yeah, it's really strange this book.
I not buy the news novels in October. Not interest anymore. I am just a fan now for fic and community like these. I think one day I going to forgot Torchwood. I am really not interest anymore of the show but to talk of that, yeah I like it but not Torchwood in the future. For Gwen she's really boring and they seem to push her in our heart which is why I hate her so much more. Rhys I find the character funny to follow but because of Gwen, I don't care anymore.
I really hate what they did to Ianto so what can I say, my passion die in day 4....
It's funny because it's the first show who make me so angry. Generally, I don't care of the shows but Torchwood was special with Janto and Tosh and Owen. That take me two days to Tosh and Owen to say ok at least they die like heros but Ianto it's different, it's like they destroy him at 100%. Maybe it's because he was my favorite.
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However, AFAIK, it was a Welsh BAFTA that EM won. (which I'm sure is worthy in its own right, but would have a heck of a lot less competition than the main BAFTA's)
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the only reason the show went from BBC2 to BBC1 was that. The ratings where there to give him the go ahead.I have to wonder what James thinks about that. More importantly Joss Whedon.
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What could Joss think?
RTD has the touch of rot, Joss has the touch of gold, Joss is so successful and wide spread he's also writing comics.
Torchwood was a spin off, and considering people's nostalgia, Who might have been successful completely indie of RTD's ideas. I know I've sat through many boring Trek TNG episodes just to hear Mrs.Roddenberry's voice.
Joss Whedon's CV;
Filmography
* Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992) – writer
* Speed (1994) – writer (uncredited)
* Toy Story (1995) – writer
* Alien Resurrection (1997) – writer
* Titan A.E. (2000) – writer
* Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001) – writer
* Bandwagon (2004) – actor
* Serenity (2005) – writer, director
* Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2008) – creator, writer, director, executive producer (Acts I and II), producer (Act III)
* The Cabin in the Woods (2011) – writer, producer
* Goners (2011) – writer, director
[edit] Television
* Roseanne (1988) – writer
* Parenthood (1990) – co-producer, writer
* Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003) – creator, writer, director, executive producer, actor (episode "I, Robot... You, Jane", uncredited)
* Angel (1999-2004) – creator, writer, director, executive producer, actor (episode "Through the Looking Glass" as Numfar)
* Firefly (2002) – creator, writer, director, executive producer, actor (episode "The Message", uncredited)
* Buffy the Animated Series (2004) – creator, writer, executive producer
* Veronica Mars (2005) – actor (episode "Rat Saw God" as Douglas)
* The Office (2007) – director ("Business School" and "Branch Wars")
* Dollhouse (2009-present) – creator, writer, director, executive producer
[edit] Awards
[edit] Awards won
Nebula Awards:
* Best Script - Serenity (2006)
Hugo Awards:
* Best Dramatic Presentation - Serenity (2006)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2009)[62]
Emmy Awards:
* Outstanding Special Class - Short-format Live-action Entertainment Program - Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2009)[63]
Eisner Awards:
* Best Continuing Series (with John Cassaday) - Astonishing X-Men (2006)
* Best New Series (with Brian K. Vaughan, Georges Jeanty, and Andy Owens) - Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Eight (2008)
* Best Digital Comic (with Fabio Moon) - Sugarshock! (2008)
Prometheus Award
* Special Award - Serenity (2006)
Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard:
* Outstanding Lifetime Achievement Award in Cultural Humanism (2009)[61]
Streamy Awards:
* Best Directing in a Comedy Series - for the series Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2009)[64]
* Best Writing in a Comedy Series - for the series Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog with Maurissa Tancharoen, Jed Whedon and Zack Whedon (2009)[64]
[edit] Awards nominated
Academy Awards:
* Best Writing, Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen - Toy Story (1996)
Emmy Awards:
* Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series - Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, for the episode "Hush" (2000)
* Outstanding Special Class - Short-format Live-action Entertainment Program - Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2009)[63]
Hugo Awards:
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - "Waiting in the Wings" (Angel, 2003)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - "Serenity" (Firefly, 2003)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - "Chosen" (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 2004)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - "The Message" (Firefly, 2004)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - "Not Fade Away" (Angel, 2005)
* Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - Smile Time" (Angel, 2005)
* Graphic Story - Serenity: Better Days (2009)[65]
Nebula Awards:
* Best Script - Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, for the episode "Once More, with Feeling" (2003)
* Best Script - Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, for the episode "The Body" (2002)
Saturn Awards:
* Best Writing - Screenplay for Toy Story (1996)
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The thing is, he has systematically destroyed what the show was meant to be for his own purpose and has now turned the show into what he originally planned but look at what has happened, he expected to get a season 4 and it hasn’t happened, he couldn’t sell the original program and now he has turned a perfectly good and popular show into what he wanted, he still can’t sell it, I mean, he really should have learnt the first time, if you can’t sell it then there is something wrong with it.
I think another reason he has destroyed Jack is, and I am just spectulating, but I don’t think he likes the fact that John is more popular and well known than he is. John has shown that he is bigger than the show and is more popular and well liked by the BBC than he has been. I mean, RTD has trouble funding SJA and really don’t give him anything but with John, they find different things for him to do and fund some of his projects and I think that, with RTD’s ego has made him self destruct Jack, for a twisted version of revenge.
The other problem is, the character that he probably brought over from the original show, Gwen, which is his favourite is the most disliked out of all of the characters he has created. Compared to the following that of the others is nowhere as big as the others and no matter what he does with her or how much he forces her down peoples throats, she is still hated. And that has pissed him off and made him more determined to get what he wants. He has the mentality that, if he forces her down peoples throats enough, people will like her and see what he sees in her but that never happens and it ends up destroying the show.
I don’t things would be so bad if he had picked an actress who was any good. If the person playing Gwen was a power actress, I don’t think people would have hated as much as they have with Eve playing her and also, if he was as desperate to get rid of John as he has shown, the BBC wouldn’t have half the problems with the show because they could fall back on her to take the lead. But he has chosen an actress that, if I am honest, shouldn’t go past soap acting and isn’t well known. She hasn’t got the power in her to lead the show. The other thing is, and I have noticed this, even if there is an unknown lead actress, most of the others are established and well known actors, if you look at most of the BBC drama’s, they always have atlest 2 well known actors in it so to back up the newbies. What he has left the show with is two, unknown, not very good and frankly non reconiserable actors to lead a show. Which means, not only has left the show with the lest liked couple but also they are forgettable, and that is one thing you can’t say about john, like him or hate him, but you can recognize him. And also, to be blunt, neither Eve or Kai are attractive, which is also going to be a problem, there are three thing that draw people to a show, a name, the acting and someone who is attractive. Compared to John, those two are nowhere near attractive and if you are trying to get people to be interested in the show and you are not well known, looks help.
The other major thing is, John knows how to talk to the press, do interviews and how to sell a product. He is also a really nice guy. Eve on the other hand, has no idea on how to sell a show, do interviews or talk to the press and after some of her comments about the fans, she isn’t as nice of a person as we thought she was.
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Speaking of Torchwood, if they do happen to make a season four, I'm not sure I will watch it. It seems Russell Davies is killing off people just so he can get Jack and Gwen together. I'm expecting Rhys to die if there is a season four. When you watch them without a week between eps, you really get to see what a peach Gwen really is. She lies continually to Rhys and Andy, she uses Andy whenever possible to get what she wants. She is really not a very nice person, I think. And I'm still really, really angry about Ianto. So there!
I didn't say that she is a shrew who thinks she knows what is best for everyone, that everything is her business, that she and she alone knows what is the right thing to do. HA! How wrong can one person be?
The Jack of Torchwood is not the Jack of Doctor Who, but he was still Jack. Then TRD visited his destruction on the character. Jack would not behave the way he did in COE without a complete personality transplant, which TRD gave him. Fan fiction saved Jack and Ianto for me, so I can forget COE and TRD and just be happy in the real Jack/Ianto 'verse.
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Jack was a con man and a time agent, there was no way in hell that there weren’t constingency plans in place and they would have constantly been updated either by him or Tosh. Security is a major issue and jack wouldn’t let them be soft, his survivual depended on it, there is no way he would let half of the things happen that did actual happen. The Lisa incident, that might of happened due to Ianto being in TW London and he probably had access to the network so he could of assessed the security before he actual went there, Ianto isn’t stupid, he would of checked it out to figure out how to get her in there.
As for Mary, brain washing is a little hard to put security measures against because there isn’t anything to stop it. And also, depending on what kind of manipulation, it isn’t that easy to read on a person. Tosh was a quite person so it would have been a little hard to detect. I think, after her trying to get into Jack’s head, I wouldn’t of been surprised if him letting mary walk into the hub was planned and was a trap. I think once he probably worked out exactly the object they found was, he probably put two and two together and set it up to get rid of it. The problem I do have with it, I don’t think Jack would of let her destroy it like that, with something that powerful, a tiny piece could cause havoc, I think he probably would have secured it in the archieves so it didn’t get into the wrong hands. The other major thing that I don’t get is their explanation as to why Tosh couldn’t hear anything inside Jack’s head. Their explanation was about his immortality and whether he is really alive or dead, missing the obvious thing which was he was a time agent from the future dealing with different alien races, some which might be telepathic, it would make sense that he had defenses against mind reading and probably very good ones as well.
As for the affair, in a work place, no matter how hard you try, people will always know who is sleeping with who, so there was no way he could of missed it. The only problem was that he really couldn’t comment on it due to the fact that he was sleeping with Ianto, the only thing he could of gotten away with was the fact that neither he or Ianto were with someone so no one would of gotten hurt by it. The retcon, he probably did know or maybe Ianto told him about it, with ianto book keeping he probably would have noticed it and mentioned it to jack. And judging by Rhys’s behavior, the fact that Gwen disappeared and then her behavior when she came back would give him an idea of what had happened, the only thing he might of thought is, with what she had done, she would have to live with the consequences and the knowledge what she had done and the guilt alone would be punishment. It was also, to a certain extent, a personal matter not a TW matter, so he really had no reason to comment.
My biggest problem with the ending is, when jack goes up against the team. Being a time agent and being in TW, he would know exactly what kind of power the rift held, in that kind of situation with how big the threat was to humanity, he would have shot both Owen and Gwen dead. Not tried to talk them out of it, this was a threat against time and the world, there was no time to decide, he would have had to kill them.
The major problem with season 1 was, Gwen never took any consequences for her actions, she always got away with what ever went wrong because she had jack to fall back on and he would always fix it. And also, she goes into a new job and is telling her new boss and her new coweorkers how to run things, in the real world she would have been fired, she has no right to tell people, who have been there a hell of a lot longer than her what to do or how to do it. They would have just dismissed her proposals and just continued on with what they were doing. But she goes there and everyone just listens to her and thinks she is great? It is sickening.
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Gwen, I don’t know what the hell RTD was trying to do with her in season 2 but she just pissed people off. It was all me, me, bloody me. She made every situation about her and her life. For saying she was meant to be the heart of the team, she sure didn’t act like it.
The thing I do find interesting is that there seemed to be a pattern that developed in both seasons 2 & 3, which is, as soon as we find out a little snip it of one of the characters, they were dead by the next episode or couple of episodes. Owen, we found out that he and his mother didn’t have a good relationship in Adam, he was killed in Reset. Then again in Fragments, we found out about his fiancée and how he got into TW, he was vapourised in the next ep. Tosh we found out what happened to her and her mother, she was shot dead in the ep. Ianto, who I refuse to believe is dead because as far as I am concerned COE didn’t happen, we found out he had a sister with two kids and his father wasn;t very nice, died in ep 4. They also did it to Jack, he suddenly had a daughter and grandson and he ends up leaving. We got promised to find out more about Jack and the others but in actual fact, we found out nothing. We know all about Gwen but nothing about them. Also, we saw the ins and outs of Gwen and Rhys, but we never got any real insight into Janto or Towen. It was almost like he gave us all this info on Gwen, hoping it would makes us like her because we could either relate to her or heaven forbid, like her and by not telling us so much about the others we wouldn’t like them because we didn’t know them but it back fired on him and they ended up being more popular than the one we know about, he underestimated the power of imagination.
The thing is, after the ending of COE, he has turned Jack into the Doctor. He is nearly exactly the same and it is sad really because even though him and the Doctor were similar, they had different personality trates but now he has turned jack into him. He has destined him to be alone and not let anyone get to know him, to continuely pull people out of situations and have to make the hard choices and be blamed for everything. I wouldn’t be surprised if RTD turns jack into someone who will just appear to pull Gwen and earth out of danger and then disappear again or if I wanted to be really cruel, him turn up as the face of Boe so RTD wouldn’t have to use john at all. The only thing Jack hasn’t got is a Tardis but that is essentially who he is now, the doctor mark 2.
He has missed out on such amazing opportunities for someone who isn’t worth it. He missed out a great couple opportunity, great characters, great stories for someone who is just dreadful. He says that Jack had to pay the price for his immortality, it’s not that at all. It is us the fans and John who are paying the price for not liking Gwen and in John’s case, for daring to be more popular than he ever could be.