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antigwenallies Aug. 29th, 2009 10:06 am)
natn2208.livejournal.com posting in antigwenallies Aug. 29th, 2009 10:06 am) I just accidentally read a Gwack over at fanfiction.net, and it made me feel a bit ill, so I came over here for comfort. Now that I feel better, I just wanted to thank everyone here for the fic that was such good medicine. Now, while Gwen annoys me, I don't actually hate her, so what is it about Gwen and Jack together that makes me gag?
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That's just wrong on so many levels.
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For me it's half because they already have partners and half because they have no romantic chemistry at all. Jack had better chemistry with the Doctor's severed hand than he has with Gwen.
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I mean, with janto, they accepted each other for who they were and they grew and changed together.
If anything, i could see gwack as a one night stand, which means nothing to jack but everything to gwen and when she finds out she gets all bitchy, etc. As a relationship, hell no.
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You can't fake chemistry. Jack and Ianto had. Gwen and Jack (Gwen and Rhys, Gwen and Owen, Gwen and Janet...etc) didn't.
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Unfortunately, in my opinion, Johns off screen relationship with Eve prevents me seeing their characters as lovers. This is because together they seem to descend into a kind of behavior rather like my kids when they are about 8-9. Of course, actors can, and should be able to play lovers without actually having an off screen relationship, but I do not think that John is very convincing in romantic scenes with women in the same way he is with similar scenes with men, and Eve is just not that good an actress anyhow, at least, not in Torchwood.
As for the actual story line---well---Gwen has been involved with Rhys since we first saw her, but this didn't stop her having an affair with Owen. The writers gave this the feeble excuse that she couldn't talk about her job with Rhys. This is just rotten writing as numerous people do jobs which they cannot talk about with their partners without throwing themselves at other people.
As for Torchwood Season 4, I asked my cousin, who is at this very moment working for the BBC, if it has been renewed and he said they are still talking about it. He is a Producer and tried to explain to me the complicated mechanics of this as numerous things that no-one takes account of come into play, such as funding, sets, actors availability etc.
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Someone tried to get me to buy that once. My immediate thought was : She can only talk about her problems with a dick in her?
She could talk to anyone on the team. She could ask Jack to find an approved shrink (UNIT's got to have some at least!). Instead, her answer is to spread her legs for the closest TW guy.
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The irony of Countrycide is that this was probably the only Torchwood related incident that Gwen could easily have discussed with Rhys. All she'd have had to do was fudge the details a bit as to why they'd been investigating, and then she could have totally spilled the beans.
And if she'd felt the need to talk to somebody on the team, then why not Tosh? (I can understand why not Jack, as he'd be looking at things from a different perspective with his longevity)
Of course the problem with Gwen going to Tosh to talk about her troubles, is that Gwen wasn't going to be Queen of any pity party after what Tosh had been through. (that's probably the same reason she wouldn't have gone to Ianto...that and the fact that she probably forgot about him anyway)
No, the 'talking' was just an excuse. After the conversation Gwen and Owen had had earlier, there's no way she would have gone to Owen's place if she wasn't planning on getting laid.
It's even worse if you watch the deleted scene from Countrycide, which starts out with Gwen sitting watching TV with Rhys. He makes a comment about how he knows she can't tell him all the details, but he's there if she wants to talk. Next second she's faked a call from Torchwood calling her in to work and she fecks off to Owen's.
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It's childish. So sue me; I'm allowed to like/dislike whomever I want. :P
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I think as everybody else is saying, It's the on screen chemistry between them both, I mean even Tosh and Jack had a greater sex appeal. I don't know wither its the actors that are not connecting on a fundamental level or its the way the characters are set out and personality wise on screen,that the idea of those two together sets teeth chattering.
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In TW, he made it clear he didn't subscribe to labels, including the concept of a monogamous relationship, unless it was a mutuall desire.
I vividly recall Eve talking about the possibility of Jack and Gwen getting together, and she stated emphatically that if Jack took up with Gwen, then she would expect him to be with her, and ONLY her.
Now, given her character lied to and cheated on Rhys throughout series 1, I found that a disgustingly hypocritical thing to say.
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I think (If I dig my way through the history) That I have an interview from the middle of the first season from Eve Myles saying that Gwen and Jack would inevitably come together as shes the only one that can reach him, ignoring the Q that the reporter asking her about Rhys.
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Why does that not surprise me?
You know, I can't help but wonder just how much EM has aspirations do a sex scene with JB.
*shudders*
I'm off now to bleach my brain.
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I once heard John say something like that. He basically said that if Jack and Gwen ever got together Jack would have to be monogamous because that's what Gwen would expect. *Ianto style eye roll*
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But with Rhys and Ianto to consider, there was just too much in the way for Gwack to be a viable possibilty. The sad thing about many of the Gwack fans is that they don't see the fact that both halves of the pairing are involved with other people. Many of them don't care that 'their' one true pairing could only happen by hurting two people. Then again, many of the Gwack writers seem to just ignore that inconvenient fact when writing.
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Writers of soaps, dramas, sci fi etc, seem to think however that viewers will identify with this and the associated dilemmas. I just sit there thinking, "Christ, woman/man- control yourself!" I don't find it a particularly endearing trait at all!!
Mind you, perhaps with surveys all over the tabloids/mags/tv stating that in the UK (and presumably the rest of the world that something like 60-75% of men and womed admit to being unfaithful, writers could beforgiven their belief that the viewers will identify with charcters such as Gwen (and her internal torment/dilemmas). Doesn't wash with me though! And that's exactly why I hate the self righteous characterisation of Gwen.
Don't get me wrong, I am a very flirtatious and innuendo ridden person.
Therefore, I never really could identify with Gwen and trust that she actually felt anything REAL about anybody, never mind Jack.
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I have to laugh at all the people who claim to be fans of Gwen and yet write Gwack. They don't seem to realize that they are bashing her even more than anybody on this site does.
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And I am not some kind of moralistic looney- I scored "you are going to hell" on that "are you sleazy?" quiz...All of that was done when I wasn't "committed" to someone...
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I actually have no idea what it is about Gwack that makes me gag too. (Actually, it raises my blood pressure.. Not in a good way either... >.<)
But, quite possibly, for me, it could be for these few reasons (I might be repeating a lot of others before me said.. XD And unfortuantly there might be a lot more... these are just the ones I could think of now.)
1) Gwen turning out to be a Mary Sue.
2) Infidelity. She cheats on Rhys with Owen and falls in 'love' with Jack. She says that she loves Rhys but does these things anyways? Not a good example of a character you try to get people to like.
3) How she suffers no consequences for the mistakes she's made. Everyone in the show made mistakes and suffered their consequences heavily, but Gwen with her mistakes, it seemed to have been glossed over heavily or outright ignored with the writers/directors making the excuse that she makes these mistakes because she's human. And no one else is? That irritated me the most.
4) Hard to relate to as a person for the audience.
5) The blatant disregard for the other characters that Jack and Gwen were involved with.
6) Naivety. (My spelling might be a smidge off on that).
7) How they say she's innocent but really she's not.
8) She puts Jack on a soapbox, expecting him to be perfect, but when she discovers his imperfections, she shuts him down.
9) How she disregards Tosh and Ianto and how she doesn't reach out to them and trying to make friends with them.
10) How she's supposed to be the heart of the team. But it doesn't stop her from hurting other people when she tries to get answers, solve something, or get what she thinks is right. She disregards the other characters (although they have more of a handle of what's going on then she does) and doesn't think of the consequences of her actions. She hurts people and at the same time, RTD expects us to love her the same way he does. He forces us upon her, with almost every episode dedicated to her but never really showing any change in her character.
... but yeah. Kind of got ranty at 10. :-) But it isn't just you that gags at it. XD