Ok, i have to ask.

[emzbuckley.livejournal.com]

I was watching the past two seasons and a thought struck me. Am i the only one who thinks that TW has lost that edge that it had in season 1 & 2? There was something about those two seasons that, to me, season 3 was lacking.

I mean, i will be honest, i have watched a lot of scifi in my life and seen a lot of plot lines, so that might not help but there was an edge to torchwood when it started and last year it still had that edge, this season, the more i watch it, the more bored i get. I watch the other seasons and even though i know the plot, i am not bored by it, this season i am bored by it.


Is it just me or am i nuts? LOL! 

Comments

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

You aren't nuts. Torchwood Series 1 and 2 were old fashioned BBC Sci Fi. That meant less than stellar scripts and some lame special effects, but for the most part actors that tried really hard to take their roles seriously. It was quirky and rarely made sense, but for the most part it was enjoyable.

Series 3 wasn't Torchwood. It was an attempt by RTD to make an American-grade Science Fiction/Drama series. Unfortunately, he chose X-Files as his American model (late X-Files, which had incredibly low viewing numbers) and then couldn't be bothered to come up with an original script and simply did a retread of an old Quartermass episode. Then, because he was selling it to BBC as Torchwood, he made a very superficial attempt to shoehorn the Torchwood characters into the storyline. (This is a typical RTD action, for those that don't know, Torchwood itself was a proposed show written by RTD called Excalibur that BBC said no to. Then when Doctor Who took off and BBC wanted an adult program tie-in, he dusted off Excalibur and glued Captain Jack Harkness onto it.)

And that is probably what really bothers you the most. For a Torchwood mini-series, the Torchwood cast were oddly absent for most part, weren't they? I mean, honestly, if someone does the screen time counts, I'm rather confident that Peter Capaldi has 1.5 times the screen time of John Barrowman and Gareth David-Lloyd combined. Which fits with the sock puppet's, I mean Eve Myles, comment that Jack & Ianto are there for comic relief.

RTD stated that Series 3 wouldn't require new audiences to know anything about Torchwood to enjoy it. Well that's very true, because it wasn't a Torchwood story- it was a stand alone drama that completely disregarded the entire Torchwood history we'd been given. He forgot to mention that the series would basically say, "Hey, Torchwood fans? Bugger off because I want bigger numbers and a mainstream show for once."

[crayon-harkness.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, even though this is my insomnia ridden mind speaking since its 6-13am and I can see sunlight outside and still haven't slept! lol.
I feel very easy and comfortable to watch previous episodes in season 1 and 2 of Torchwood even though I can recite most of the lines and laugh a few minutes before something amusing happens because I remember it happening.
I liked season 1 and 2, maybe because I'm a sucker for hating change but I didn't like it as much without the familiar feel of 'this is Torchwood', with the Hub, Myfanwy, Janet etc ... and all those memories around the place.
At the start of COE I was happy with how it was going and it was exciting and new, but then it just got to be strange ... I mean come on ... they didn't mention the rift once! Isn't that a bloody main part of Torchwood?!
I managed to watch Day Five even though I said that I wouldn't but managed to get persuaded into it. I have never seen an episode of Torchwood that has made me feel physically sick and awkward watching it. Day Five for me was horrific and it still makes me feel sick thinking about it. They have left Jack as an empty shell and it just isn't right.

[many-souls.livejournal.com]

No, it's not just you. I've watched season three, I thought it entertaining, but I don't feel the need to watch it again (and that's not because I couldn't stand to see Ianto die).

It somehow removes itself from my personal canon for Torchwood and I don't even have to struggle to forget it. That's something I can't do for Exit Wounds, no matter how much I would love for Tosh and Owen to still be around.

Season 3 was shock for shock's sake. Once the shock has worn off, there isn't much substance left.

I think one big problem could also be the format of season 3. I don't care to watch five hours just to get one story done. Much easier with the format of seasons 1 and 2 (or the radioplays or the audiobooks).

[elanor12.livejournal.com]

It's not just you. I quite like Series 3, except for the obvious (Ianto's faith and the make-Jack-suffer-fest), but somewhere along the line, I realised that I was having the impression of watching a random TV drama. I realised it when Frobisher enter his daughters room in ep.5. I was in a OMG OMG *is sad* state, but not the Torchwood kind...I don't know if I make sense *lol* I'm in a sleep deprived state.

Thinking of it, I had the impression of watching an entertaining tv drama with the TW characters as kind of guesses. I had a lot (and I mean a LOT) of OMG OMG OMG moments, but now that the shock has worn off, I don't know if I still find it THAT good, and I not sure I want to rewatch it. I mean, Come onnnn! It wasn't even in Cardiff! Not even one mention of the Weevils (that I can remember of) or Myfanwy, or the RIFT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY!
Maybe it's because of that impression I'm not having problem at forgetting Series 3 as cannon where I had difficulties at ignoring Tosh and Owen death at the end of series 2...and Tosh was my favorite after Ianto.

So yeah, it's not just you.

[blucougar.livejournal.com]

I think it didn't measure up to the first two seasons because it moved too far away from the formula that made TW so good in series 1 & 2. No rift, just one very undefined alien (we never really get a good look at it) and TOO MUCH GWEN.

It also didn't help that we were given many, many hints as to what we could look forward to, only to be slapped in the face and basically told "Ha!!!" by that mongrel RTD.

We were told that we would see developments in Jack and Ianto's relationship. Oh yeah, we got that all right. Ianto dead and Jack emotionally destroyed.

We were told that we would learn new things about Ianto. Yeah, we learned that we knew even less about him than before. Dad WASN'T a master tailor, and pushed Ianto too hard.

Oh, and off-topic, I was watching "Bad Wolf" last night (couldn't sleep) and noted something interesting. One of the questions in the "Weakest Link" segment of the ep was as follows:

Q: The Great Cobalt Pyramid was built on the remains of which Old Earth institute?
A: Torchwood

I'll go along with that, if we can have Gwen buried underneath it.

[emzbuckley.livejournal.com]

There was way too much Gwen in it, this was, in my opinion, her set up. This was showing her off and showing that Eve can carry a series and where the show was going.

All of it was a little covienent really, its like last year, we found out a bit about Tosh and her mother and Owen and his mother and then they died. And the same happen this year, we saw ianto's family and jack's family and now they are gone too. Its almost like, here's the character, here's some past and then bang, sorry they're gone.

[suellen128.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. Season 1 and 2 had some sparkle and delivered plot lines in such a way no-one could not help but get sucked in to TW era.

But alas season 3 didn't have that same excitement, that same "OMG, whats going to happen next" that same action/drama/action set-up which was more the reason it got noticed and kept avid viewers watching rather then turning over.

I actually started to fast-forward bits of CoE, I'm all for getting background information and what goes on behind all the action usually, but some bits were so boring with nothing happening that my mind just switched off from the excitement that TW was starting again.

Did anybody else think this, or am I the lone ranger on this bit? :)

[bk_forever]

I didn't fast forward as I wasn't watching a recording, but my mind did tend to drift with the government sections, people I didn't care about talking about stuff around a table. It didn't hold my attention the way even the worst episodes of the previous 2 series did. It seemed there was a lot of filler taking up time and very little of the original characters - well, very little of Jack & Ianto. Gwen seemed to get way more screen time than the supposed star of the show. I don't watch political thrillers because I find them tedious. I like to watch S.F. and I don't watch tha for 'realism' but for entertainment and escapism. That's why I loved the first 2 series of Torchwood and hated CoE. There was so much potential at the end of season 2, but RTD just threw it all away in an attempt to turn Torchwood into mainstream TV. I still feel betrayed and disgusted.

[suellen128.livejournal.com]

I know what you are saying, It got really boring with the secretaries were just fielding calls when the children first stopped. I mean some of the supporting actors well I give my hat to them, they were fantastic! But alas the same as you I did not find any escapism in CoE, and sorry to say but sci-fi genre has now been damaged for me.

[bk_forever]

2 seasons of establishing what Torchwood is, then they throw out everything they've established to make the show more adult and realistic. It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Apparently, Torchwood as we knew it wasn't the show RTD wanted to make, but it was a success so why couldn't he have continued to make the show people enjoyed instead of stripping away all that was enjoyable and giving us grim, bleak, hopelessness. I get enough of that on the news.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

I have just come out of Hospital after falling down the stairs, which is not a good thing to do when you are expecting Triplets. They kept me in for observation but apart from lots of bruises I am OK and so are the Trips.

Naturally I looked here and found this interesting discussion. I didn't think this was much Torchwood, actually. I am not interested in watching folk have meetings and people talking and not doing anything.

I feel that RTD should spend some time with a proper family, like mine, to get some idea about what people do and say, as he seems to live in some kind of strange vacuum divorced from reality. Let him come here for a day and have two toddlers climbing all over him and a ten year old playing the Violin for hours and a teenage boy on the phone for ages and a builder husband coming in hot and tired and going on about rotten suppliers and then he would realize that people like us do not want to watch dreary stories about lots of people DYING.
If I get time to watch anything on TV for more than a half hour I do not want it to be miserable.

As for the cast of Season 3, I had never heard of Peter Capalti {I know that is not spelled right, sorry} or the other guy that shouted with the kids, so seeing them made no impression on ME at all. Dan was raised in New York and he didn't recognize them. So that wasn't a reason to watch for us either.

Worst of all was there was too much Gwen.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

Meant to say that there has always been too much Gwen in Torchwood but Seasons 1-2 were much better and more enjoyable than COE. For me anyhow.

[bk_forever]

There's always too much Gwen since she's the only character RTD actually likes, which is why everything always works out perfectly for her and she never has to suffer. I actually believe that RTD has been systtematically killing off all the other characters so he can have the Gwen show that he originally wanted. He can't kill off Jack because someone else wrote him as immortal, so he destroyed him instead and sent him away from Earth. From now on it'll be all Gwen all the way, and a hell of a lot of previously loyal viewers won't be watching. Let's see how quicky the Gwen show gets cancelled.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

I read someplace that RTD actually hates the character of Jack, but is stuck with him because he is immortal.

Try as I might I have never been able to understand why RTD loves Gwen so much---

On another note the 4D video of the Trips is fantastic---

[bk_forever]

If that's the case, it's no wonder RTD took such pains to destroy Jack in any way he could. Honestly, the man disgusts me. He's supposed to be entertaining us, but anything anyone likes is destroyed while his pet character lives a charmed life. Then he has the nerve to start spouting about 'realism'.

Glad you and the trips are doing OK. My cousin's baby is due any minute and he's getting a bit freaked out - and they're only having one!

[tomorrows-moon.livejournal.com]

Series 3 made me feel uncomfortable watching it, very uncomfortable. I can't really pinpoint why - I was ok at the start, but as it went on I was saying to myself: 'I really don't like this'. And I do admit that my mind drifted during the government bits - it was like 'urgh, just say what you want and get on with it so we can have more screentime for characters I actually like...'
Series 1 and 2 were darkly fun, with characters we learnt to love, storylines that ok, weren't OMG SHOCKING!, but were interesting and dynamic and enjoyable. That was the thing about Series 3 - I didn't enjoy it.
Just my two cents on the matter :-)

[sarahjane6.livejournal.com]

Nope, you're not alone. I think RTD compromised the characters in favor of a sub-standard story to gain the new viewers that a BBC1 airing would bring. It was mostly flash, special effects and senseless running around in place of a plot.

Sad, no wonder so many fans are choosing to ignore COE and call it 'the series that never happened'.

[bk_forever]

Nice summation here. I still don't see why RTD thought that alienating existing viewers was a good idea though. The new viewers he's brought in through being on BBC1 aren't going to stick around, watching loyally week in and week out. The best he'll get out of it is casual viewers who don't care about the characters and aren't bothered by poor characterisation and plotholes provided there's lots of explosions, shooting and running around. He says he won't cater to the fans, instead he's catering to the masses of casual viewers who aren't interested in anything more than flashy, instantly forgettable mainstream TV. It's disheartening.

[sarahjane6.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I guarantee that those casual viewers will say "Torchwood, what's that?" if it takes as long for series 4 as what we waited for COE.

Then to further he has to be insulting and arrogant to those same viewers who supported the show during the first two series. Unacceptable, I think someone from the BBC should have a talk with Mr. Davies. For goodness sake he's acting like he's the most talented writer/producer there ever was...he's not even near.

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

The problem is--the BBC act like RTD IS the greatest writer/producer who ever was.

Anyhow, my next door neighbor, who knows everything about Sci-fi and is somewhat older than Dan and I, watched COE and told me that she could identify where most of the story originated and there was not anything original in it-----she told us that she is surprised some of the writers of the original scripts don't sue RTD {I think she was joking about that though}.

As far as I am concerned though, Torchwood proper finished with Season 2. What on earth are they going to do with Season 4, I wonder?

[ruby-took.livejournal.com]

I still don't see why RTD thought that alienating existing viewers was a good idea though.

No, I don't get that either. Not only are the casual viewers he might have gained unlikely to stick around to wait patiently for the next season, but they are also not particularly likely to buy the novels and other assorted merchandise. It's the fans that do that. If nothing else, from a business point of view, alienating the fans (who are, let's not forget it, at least partially responsible for the success of the show) is a very, very bad idea.

It's so sad that CoE didn't have that uniqueness that I fell in love with when I first started to watch Torchwood...

[wingslapped.livejournal.com]

Most of what I have to say has already been said here. S3 did feel like another show. RTD came off in late S2 and S3 as thinking drama=kill your main characters. The problem is that each main character takes away reasons for the audience to watch. Pretty soon, you're left with not very many reasons for the audience to watch. He also insults his audience in the media. Series 4 will have an audience, but not in the numbers that it could have had. I'm hoping that BBC will notice and figure out why.

Quote from Galifrey on Season 4

[jennelldhalrbj.livejournal.com]

"As for set up, something tells me that when Torchwood returns, we are going to see it rebuilt in a more humanitarian mindset of Gwen with her in charge. When Jack returns, I predict he will be more Torchwood's secret weapon/consultant rather than leader. In many ways, Jack isn't really fit for the leadership role: his methods are dangerous and destructive, emotionally and phyiscally to his team and others. As such, there is much dramatic potential for Jack to return to a Torchwood that has moved on from his era and methods, with him now demoted."

Thought folk here might be interested in this-----going away to vomit at the thought now----

Re: Quote from Galifrey on Season 4

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

It always amuses me when people cite Gwen's 'humanity' as a good thing when they're you know, dealing with ALIENS all the time.

One of the (many) things I loved about Babylon 5, was how they made a point about how alien characters might look similar to humans but they couldn't be counted on to act like them.

As for Jack being demoted, well he's already spent over 100 years answering to other people, and look how well that turned out in, ooh, 1966.

Face it, the first big threat that leader Gwen comes across, she'll try and deal with it on human terms and everybody will die.

Hmm, okay, i'm issuing a challenge to writers. Rewrite any of the first 26 episodes showing how the team would have fared had Gwen been in charge and making all the decisions.

Re: Quote from Galifrey on Season 4

[emzbuckley.livejournal.com]

I am going to be sick.

What i could see more is Gwen leading TW, getting into major trouble and jack doing a doctor kind of thing and turns up to pull her out of the shit that she has gotten herself into. Or what i would prefer to see, just to piss the gwen fans off is if jack turns up and he is very different than he was, you know, more blunt and harsh and sarcastic than he used to be and if he is demoted, when things go wrong for Gwen, he has a more superierioty complex and really rubs it in her face, like, i told you not to do it and you did it anyway and looked what happened, aww poor little you.

But seriously after that comment, god help us all. lol.